What Wrath players need to know to not suck at Cata!

[Deleted]

Just asked guildies for Vanilla experience. I experienced all other BC fights. The difficulty in 4HM Naxx was more in getting 8 geared warrior tanks in full tier 2 than anything else. So point moot.

Yes, thats exactly the reason there was no guild that could take them out for weeks.

[Aerialslayer]

anyone could have made this, it's all common sense.

[Maxvla]

One of the biggest things I can think to add to this post is tanks learning how to pick up multiple mobs without relying as much on AOE abilities.

If you have 4 mobs, 1 caster 3 melee, for instance, you have skull on caster, x on one of the melee and a CC mark on one of the other melee leaving a 3rd melee to die last of the 3 active mobs.

Many tanks in this situation would simply run over to skull and start pounding it and laying down aoe abilities to hold the rest. The better way to manage a group like this is to run in, tag X (2nd target) with a snap agro ability like mangle, devastate, etc, then immediately start pounding skull and laying out what AOE abilities you have to try to corral the unmarked melee. If DPS is doing it's job, the CC should be in place, you have a good healer threat and accidental targeting buffer on X, skull is locked tight onto you and is dying nicely, unmarked melee is not being targeted and should be held by your AOE threat. Should unmarked break loose for heal agro or a DPS mistake, the group can snare the mob until you can taunt it back.

If you did the pull the way I initially showed, instead of 1 mob with the potential to get loose, you'd have 2 running around. 2 loose mobs are much harder to snare and taunt because most classes have 1 snare, and tanks have limited taunt abilities.

This strategy is expandable to as many mobs as you need to cover, but with more mobs comes more responsibility for the DPS to select the correct target. If you are banking on AOE threat abilities to keep 2-3 mobs on you, the group can't afford targeting errors.

There really is no reason NOT to do this as while you are running in, the DPS can't attack anyways. 1 attack on the 2nd target is literally a free hit.

I learned this method from a tanking friend who was our guild 'Heroic Shattered Halls' tank (warrior) back when you needed the Trials of the Naaru from A'dal to get into Tempest Keep.

[Brakthir]

Weeks compared to months for Yogg 0? April release for Ulduar, July kill for Yogg 0

[Noah37]

Good post, I honestly hope that a lot of the people I have recently played with are reading this. I had some extra time so I have been leveling a Troll Druid to enjoy the new zone changes, as well as the instance changes. Overall it has been awesome, except the various dps specced healers and tanks. I have ran with multiple Enhancement Shamans that put in that they were Healers, or Ret Paladins marked as tanks. It is incredibly sad, and ridiculous how awful many of them are. A lot of people are playing with a "me first" style these days, and I hope Blizzard holds strong and doesn't change Cata to cater to them.

[Gravlax]

Not sure if you have done, but you should really post this on the official forum as well as I suspect it would have even more impact there.

I think the biggest problem that WoTLK has brought us is that people expect success now, even in a pug & with no idea what the boss does. So one wipe and half the group calls each other shit and leaves.

Will be funny to watch these people wipe on trash....but I really hope your guide helps

[Skoragon]

There is no fight in Vanilla or BC harder than the ones in Wrath raids. Just name one.

Back in the days before even AQ, there's a reason Vael was known as the guild killer.

Yes, HMLK25, and HM Mimi pre-nerf are difficult fights, but as has been said many times, they are special content for people that really really want to push. Going through a raid first time, you most likely wont even attempt either of these. Back in Vanilla, there was 1 raid difficulty that everyone experienced, and getting the next tier of gear didn't make it a faceroll either.

OT: Dude, awesome thread, have it linked on my guild forums....and I can't wait to see the bads and lazies realies how easy they've had it these past couple of years.

[swords4two]

I am totally cut and pasteing this on my guild web site! It is awesome! thank you!

[Gravlax]

"There is no fight in Vanilla or BC harder than the ones in Wrath raids. Just name one."

One of the biggest diffrences was that we didn't get to massivly over gear current content in the past, Heroics are probably where this is most obvious...remember what pug heroics were like in TBC?

There are a few fights where one mistake by one player means a wipe, Gorefiend is probably the best example of that...everyone had to know what they were doing.

I rather miss things like the group effort it took to have the shadow res gear needed for Shiraz & think it's a shame that trying to make the game more casual friendly has taken away that sort of game play.

[Lansalot]

I find it sad that ppl are saying this is a qq post, it isn't. Those saying WOTLK offered any real challenge obviously never played through end game content in classic or tbc.

In WOTLK the actual fights that showed any real difficulty were entirely avoidable. You didn't need to kill Yogg to get anywhere else, you only got loot. You could avoid the heroic modes if you chose to. In TBC you NEEDED to kill Vashj and KT to get into Hyjal and BT. These were genuinly hard encounters with no "watered down" and "give it to me as it should have been" option to be able to overcome them.

Anyone who has raided in vanilla can quickly identify with many bosses that were exceptionally challenging, and as stated earlier, not because they hit for 75k... its because the mechanic of the encounter. As for HM25LK being hard content, how many people actually killed Felmyst, Twins and M'uru..... there have been some actual guild killers in the game before but never in WOTLK. The end game bosses of Classic, especially if you include Naxx, were probably some of the hardest in the game. Naxxramis (classic) and Sunwell were introduced at ridiculous challenge levels for the top 2-3% of players to experience and transition into a new expansion. For a single fight in HM25LK to challenge a broader portion of the player base for an extended period of time was the big failing of WOTLK. The player experience was changed forever with AoE pulls and no CC. I think many a Hunter and Mage will breathe a sigh of relief as they are now required far more for Cata content.

[Gravlax]

I can't wait to see the bads and lazies realies how easy they've had it these past couple of years.

Hopefully Bizzard wont just give in to the massive amount of QQ that will be on the forum....sadly they have shown that's exactly the sort of thing they do cave into

The main reason the pre-wotlk event was..err...uneventful was due to the QQ about the (amazingly awesome) zombie invasion. People sulking that they couldn't do some run of the mill things that had been availlable for years and that they would be able to do again in just a couple of weeks was enough to ruin the game for the rest of us...hmm.

[Conzar]

It's a shame that the people who need to read this don't come to sites like this. Those that are here likely know all this already.

That said, I'd fix the Bold tag on point 7 of dps (iirc), and mention threat meters in the dps and tank sections. Also mention DBM/Bigwigs in the general section.

Repost on the official forums a bit closer to Cata launch, and bump it on launch.

[Geckomayhem]

If I had one wish it would be that every player read this thread. This about sums up exactly how a lot of us want things to be.

One thing that may have been said already, but I will say it anyway: it will definitely pay to run dungeons with guildies where possible. If you want patience, understanding and communication, avoid pugs as much as you can.

Also, for casual players the "no more 20 min runs" thing is going to make PvE content tricky, but this is part and parcel of having new content and fresh challenges. Just have to learn to manage your time.

I can't wait to reach level 85 and learn all of the heroic encounters. Running new dungeons and improving my rusty skills is going to make the game fun again!

[ummm]

PVP BGs: KILL HEALERS FIRST, DON'T FIGHT ON ROADS, alliance: DONT CAP IBGY -.-

[Koilie]

/applause

Also I like your firefly sig. Pro shit.

[Brakthir]

Uh. HM LK has killed way many more guilds than any other previous guild killer. You know how many 11/12 guilds that are out there/were out there? Our guild has gotten hundreds of applicants from 11/12 HM guilds once we killed him, guilds that were breaking up.

And I'm sorry, but from everything that I've heard, the actual challenge in Vanilla fights were getting 40 people online, in a raid, and in the proper spec/class. There wasn't any actual challenge other than hoping that the 10 or so retards wouldn't fuck up.

Do you actually have pre 4.0 LoTD?

For some of the hardest fights in Wrath, all 25 people had to be playing 100% perfect for an extended period of time. LK, you needed 25 players playing perfectly for 15 mins.

[Skoragon]

Hopefully Bizzard wont just give in to the massive amount of QQ that will be on the forum....sadly they have shown that's exactly the sort of thing they do cave into

Idd, track record looms heavily over the required cc and general thinking of the new content

If I had one wish it would be that every player read this thread. This about sums up exactly how a lot of us want things to be.

Imo, not only read it, but take it in, process it, and improve themselves from doing so.

I believe it's already been said, but nobody is above improvement.

[Anakso]

As a tank im praying that all DPS take note of this amazing well put together topic there as been allot of discussion on the official eu forums from dps telling tanks they should have a gogogogogo attitude and if they don't its there right to pull. my attitude is think of others there are people behind those toons just take your time go at the tanks pace a good tank will always set the pace at the speed he feels he can cope with and the healers mana will.

to all the tanks out there get your macros at the ready "you pull it, you tank it"

If a dps pulls, let them. thats my motto anyway. If dps are impatient enough to pull a mob before me, it's my right not to tank it =)

Although I can't do this anymore, I even used to go as far on this stand as to remove MD/tricks if I get it well I'm not ready to pull.
Nowadays if a hunter or rogue MD/tricks me there's not to much I can do about it though xD
cept bubble i suppose.

And yea this has worked to kill the person in question many a time, and once that person is dead or if they do something to drop aggro onto someone else I get aggro on it. I remember 2 times very well where I did this, one was just a random hunter in voa who MDd an add well I was drinking and i removed MD and he died, the other was my GM, a holy paladin. who went up and judged one of the dragons before sindi, also well I was drinking. to which I just said 'I'm not tanking that give me 10seconds' and he died lol

[hunter123]

Once you know a dungeon by heart, remember that everyone starts somewhere, and that there was a point where you didn’t know the fight. our group, and help them learn.

Several times we carry some random in quest greens explaining the fights to him and then months later I'll run into him in a group. He'll be nerdraging because someone in the group didn't know something or is under-geared.

Also at the very start of Cata when everyone is learning the fight you'll get the PTR/Beta player who thinks he is so cool because he knows the fights and will try and bash people for not getting on the PTR to learn the fights. I don't care how well he know's the fights he getting kicked with great joy now.

[Hornborn]

So sad, but so awfully true.