Rogue level 85 PvP spec

[Recordable]

So, I was thinking about having some pvp at level 85 and was wondering what spec could be best for some rated bgs and/or a good 3v3 arena comp (and which classes besides the usual RMP [duh]). While most choices are pretty clear, some are not, so here's the spec I thought of and a few questions:

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#fcbdZb...cRho:MamfikzcV

Now,
- imp. ambush and waylay seems good but I'd have to use 5 friggin' points taken from very useful talents.
- assassination's first 2 tiers are bloathed with very good talents (except deadly momentum, why do people keep taking it for pvp specs? O.o), but quickening seems a must, while I'm not sure about the others.
- glyphs, not too sure about hemorrhage, bleedings don't get along too well with gouge (which I love using) but with sanguinary vein talent and hemorrhage's debuff, seems a nice dps boost. Not too sure about majors aswell. Besides CoS, it rocks.

Here it is, what do you think guys? I know similar posts may have been posted already, but I had my own questions to ask.

Edit: typo

[Deleted]

First off I have never pvped at endgame on a rogue so feel free to disregard my opinion.

Since Ambush will be one of your main attacks, I think you should drop the 2 points in Nightstalker and put them into Improved Ambush for the increased crit chance. I suggest dropping Nightstalker because you have quickening so it only reduces the cooldown on stealth which I don't think is necessary but it is of course up to yourself.
Also I would suggest moving 2 other points around, maybe improved recuperate in order to pick up Blackjack which I think is a very nice talent.

[Recordable]

Dropping nightstalker to boost ambush seems a good idea, I wasn't considering the speed buff from quickening, good input =)

Don't know if blackjack is worth losing a 6% damage reduction and a 40% of your total life heal (20% total with no improvement), to me it looks very good for 1v1, but in bgs/arenas it may just help in the very first bit of a fight, which shouldn't be as bursty as it was in wotlk... even if the "health pool will fix it" doesn't convince me 100%, guess we'll see!

1 step further anyway, thanx x)

[Deleted]

Your probably right about improved recuperate but I would just like to add that with Shadowdance you can reapply the effects of blackjack every minute, just something to consider.

[Deleted]

Mutilate Over Subtlety In Cataclysm? Believe It!

I have been playing both specs a lot. And until they fix rupture scaling (it is a serious joke vs any DOT in the game right now), I just can’t see myself playing subtlety outside of double DPS 2v2′s. The damage pressure is simply non-existent outside of shadow dance. And the class really feels like a gimped version of warrior or feral druid. Our bleed does no damage, our burst cooldown is nowhere near as reliable, and our sustained damage is way worse.

Mutilate, on the other hand, as one-dimensional as it is, offers incredible damage on top of survivability. With 16% damage reduction with deadened nerves and improved recuperate, +20% bonus healing in a world with no real healing reduction, I am not sure if there is a class that can out muscle us toe-to-toe with heals on both sides. Once rupture is applied, vendetta/slice and dice goes up, you are doing enormous damage, and you are really hard to kill. With magic dispel for every healer, and 1 minute sprint, hopefully mobility is good enough for the sheer in-your-face power.

Posted by Ming on Hydramist.

[kildal]

I don't see blackjack being too usefull and i really love imp recuperate, i would though definatly get 3/3 imp ambush and 3/3 energetic recovery.

I would take the points u need out of either sanguinary veins or nightstalker to fill out those two talents, the rest is fine.

Notice that if u drop sanguinary veins you should also get rid of hemo glyph, as the dammage is shit, it's only good for keeping the 10% extra damage active. And i would take glyph of backstab over eviscerate unless ur going very mastery heavy.

[Deleted]

This is a mutilate build I put together, there are no glyphs so feel free to pick your own.

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#fMhfMsGzRGobZcG

I didn't pick up waylay because with Deadly Brew you have 100% chance to apply crippling poisons when you apply another poison.

[kildal]

Because of venomous wounds garrote should always be used over ambush, so i would suggest moving your points in imp ambush somewhere else.

I would also put another point in coup de grace as envenom damage is really important.

What i'm split on myself is how i'm gonna spend the 4 points left over after taking the mandatory assassination talents. ( between Imp EA, Ruthlessness and Deadened Nerves)

I think i might skip Imp EA totally, but have to play around with it some more when i actually 85, which i'm having trouble with so far because of work and stuff

[Deleted]

Made these specs myself and i would go for one of these, just can't chose which one :P

wowhead.com/talent#fchfMsGzRGobZbG:qkRiqkczm

wowhead.com/talent#fchfMsGzRuobZbhc:qkRiqkczm

Don't see the point of Improved Ambush as Mutilate.

[Recordable]

Veeeeery nice inputs here guys, so far I see (personally) these options to be the best:

Assassination: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#fchfMsGzRGobZbG:qkRiqkczm

I like the idea behind taking 12% less damage while unleashing constantly the power of envenom >=) will test it's mobility tho, nowadays almost everyone has 2 - 3 escape tools, could be hard surviving with just quickening and sprint. Also, picked elusiveness over opportunity because having survival tools on shorter cd is always haw-some. They're both very useful tho.

Subtlety: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#fcbdZbZcGcfducoho:azMfik

Improving ambush and energetic recovery sounds cool, not too sure they're worth against a 10% more damage from sanguinary vein tho, which is easily appliable through glyph of hemorrhage. Also 3/3 on coup de grace or lethality?

[blowurbrain]

here is the real shit for you.

(mut): wowhead.com/talent#fcGfMsrzoGobZbGz:qkViqkczm

You wont be using Expose Armor at all cuz most of your damage comes from poison which bypass armor, 2 points ruthlessness is a better choice cuz that 1 combo point can be the difference between a 4 cp envenom and a 5 cp envenom, or you can use it for a quick SnD/Recup, you can even drop another point from deadened nerves for 3/3 ruthlessness. The rest of the build is a no brainer. The glyphs are fine, though you can trade that vendetta glyph for a rupture one if you want, 20% seems a lot but its only 6s, from 30s to 36s isnt such a big difference dont you think? Hit the spell hit cap and then reforge everything else into mastery and maybe some haste.

(sub): wowhead.com/talent#fMhfZZcGccducRho:azmsik

Drop that 2/2 initiative for 2/2 sanguinary vein... dude, 1 extra combo point on your opener or 10% increased dmg from all your sources... we didnt even had this discussion kk?? Now i posted a more offensive build without Imp Recup, cuz sub dmg is already shit as its, so you definitely want a stronger backstab, and sub survivability is already ok with preparation reseting most of your defensive cd. Also change 3/3 coup de grace to 2/3 and vice versa with the 2/3 lethality to 3/3. If you really want Imp Recup you can take it, just make sure you have enought crit to be criting most of your backstabs. Change the CoS glyph for the preparation one and change the esviscerate glyph for the hemo glyph so you can have a safe way to apply a bleed and gain the benefits of sanguinary vein. The mastery sucks so just stack tons of haste and have fun.


ps: stupid mmo champion dont let me post links until i spam enought bullshit on the forums so you'll have copy paste the link.

[Chimpyman]

what poisons do you use for mut and sub?

[blowurbrain]

instant/dp for mut.
instant or dp/crip (back to shiv, god i miss waylay) for sub.
mind numbing in throwing weapon for both.
wound poison sux hard atm, dont even bother buying it.

[Mr. Casual]

i like the 2 assas builds builds because thats what i plan on using but i wonder the viability of improved sprint even though shorter cooldown on vanish and blind are a no brainer but the prospect of improved sprint seems fun. side note: i would give me rogues left nut to have shadowstep be a baseline ability it just seems too roguey to deny the other trees.

[Fadeout]

I'm primarily a fan of Battlegrounds. Love playing them casually with my mates which I met back at the start of TBC. I did participate in Arena for the latter half of WotLK with a Priest I met, just for the sake of getting the gear and points etc, and we played at a 2100'ish level. But I have to say that in terms of enjoyment and longevity it's BG's for me.

Which leads me to the Sub Spec I've devised after much researching of all related topics I could find on AJ and MMO-Champ over a 2 week period.

wowhead.com/talent#fMhdZbZfGfczucoho:azmiskmzc

Basically I think the main point of contention is between the extra utility which makes rogueplay smoother (such as Waylay and Nightstalker) and damage output. Forgive me for being perhaps too general but that's what it boils down to in my mind, feel free to poke holes in my opinion. I welcome it.

I've basically picked utility over dmg output. Mainly because once you've achieved a certain level of mastery over your rogue, control and resets can and should be abused. In my experience that is often the one thing which sets apart average players from more adept ones.

[Deleted]

Any new recent theorem on sub builds? Cant find anything solid, every 1 seem to have diffrent opinion.

[Recordable]

Shuffler, now it's probably too early to have a "final" pvp build, but rest assured core talents will stay the same, while optionals will keep floating 'till the end of cataclysm! It's always been like this, and the new talent trees succeed very well in that goal. Imo, ofc.

Thanx blowurbrain for adding poisons (which I forgot to ask) and 2 specs. Subtlety is very solid and by now I can tell the only option I'll consider will be imp. recuperate or 3/3 puncturing wounds. Assassination seem perfect as it is, can't really add anything lol.

Fadeout, I must specify my main is actually a lock, so I'm not an expert rogue, but trading most dps talents for utility may require a playstyle more advanced than mine!

Almost 1 page full of useful posts and yet no one arguing, can it be true? O.o

[Fadeout]

To Recordable,

That's cool man, besides, as you've confirmed at the start of this post you'll be in RBG's, one can safely assume you'll be working as a group. When that's the case utility talents such as Waylay are more than likely unnecessary. I don't know your plans for your three's team, but if the other 1 or 2 dps (yes... other 2 dps, believe it! Triple dps teams such as rogue mage shadowpriest might be rising), can snare easily enough, then they might prefer you to focus on damage output.
So really it comes down to how many utility talents you'd like to sacrifice for greater damage, which you have done in the first spec you linked. You had an idea in your mind of what you need your spec to do, and you specced accordingly. Ergo, I believe your spec is perfectly suitable for you.

If in the future, Blizzard identifies a trend that rogue's are opting for clunky gameplay just to put out a viable amount of damage then I'm sure they'll address the issue.

P.S. I know right? Even most of the threads on AJ relating to this topic deteriorated into people calling others stupid just because they did or didn't put points in Initiative, etc...

[Adis]

Sorry to go a little of topic but I just started my Rogue alt and I would like to know is Combat still the best spec for pve?
Anyone could link a good build or a thread that discourse pve rogue?

I put this build up really fast, what do you think? Any suggestion is welcome.

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#fchZfGfcocrRGo:0skzZmcz

[ruzhy6]

Sorry to go a little of topic but I just started my Rogue alt and I would like to know is Combat still the best spec for pve?
Anyone could link a good build or a thread that discourse pve rogue?

I put this build up really fast, what do you think? Any suggestion is welcome.

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#fchZfGfcocrRGo:0skzZmcz

Completely off topic, make a new thread.


wowhead.com/talent#fcGfMsrzoGobZbGz:qkViqkczm is what I came up with.. thoughts? I remember reading math long ago that shows how bad Lethality is.