Rushing through heroics very discouraging

[haferflocken]

What i dislike about playing cataclysm heroics...

It's not blizzards fault it's the community's fault. I often play tank (pally), normally i'm a healer and I virtually never play dd. I used to raid alot in classic till wotlk, but not now. At a beginning of a heroic, often some random partymember rudely shouts at me for not letting the group CC, until after the first couple groups. Then sometime later, if i'm not kicked for some dumb reason like "want to chill the run", sometimes the healer just leaves. But everything's going fast as ever. Nobody complains about sh*t. Some time into the run, if it's not complete by now, we wipe, sometimes to a boss, sometimes to a grp, with me or some other guy last man standing, me having starred at the unit frames throughout teh fight (as tank), having aggro all the time, stunning, interrupting etc. I immediately get the blame, although thinking my part. They see me as maniac (not my guild or the people i know), but they don't see most of the other grps they join as non-optimal, but as NORMAL, SANE.

It is impossible to criticize the healer or dds, because they somehow noticed something in my playstyle that is "insane" (normal, fast for me) for them, and ignore every other reason for a potential wipe.

I think some people just need a change in perception, don't you think so too? They argue that cataclysm heroics are not like wotlk. Well it's very much like wotlk, with very few exeptions, where not talking about T10 gear etc. Today I even got blamed for acting like "god". What is that about?

How can most people not see what seems to me (and the big guilds) very obvious? No I can't just go with guildies, I "lost" all my heirloom items, and need them all back XD

[twinkleblur]

wait? im confused..your mad because you cant plow through instances and you need CC and the group is kicking you?

[haferflocken]

No most of my pugs go fine without any cc. I'm talking about the talking etc going on sometimes. Read my post, NOT the thread title.

[Epiclurker]

So what is killing them? It seems to me that you are missing a major part of the fight if your not losing agro. Perhaps the people you get in groups with would like to actually enjoy the dungeon and test their full abilities rather then just hit the same 2-5 buttons.
BTW, considering that heirlooms don't work past 80 and you could likely get them faster by farming the Argent tourney, why mention them at all?

[Nightstormer]

No he's unhappy because he can plow through instances but groups think it's weird. I like moving quickly through dungeons as well and I've noticed you can catch a lot of rage even if things go smoothly and get blamed if anything does go wrong. I don't totally understand it but I noticed tha for whatever reason joking around in party chat seems to make people enjoy it. I usually like to talk about how the tank sucks and we should kick him. It really makes people recognize your just all out to have a good time. Maybe try something like that conducive to your personality. It makes everything more fun for everyone.

[Khallynos]

wait? im confused..your mad because you cant plow through instances and you need CC and the group is kicking you?

I agree.

OP, your post and stance are very confusing. If you get kicked for pulling too fast and not CCing, it may be fine for you, but think of the healer. You say that Cata heroics are like WotLK heroics, but it seems that you wipe a lot.

I've played as a tank, healer, and DPS more than anything and let me tell you, people blame all three roles. Sometimes they (and myself, I mess up too) are at fault. Sometimes they are innocent. That's life really.

The tank has an important role in heroics. Make it comfortable for the healer. You may be alive at the end of a pull, but it may not be a DPS' fault if they die. Healers don't like finishing every pull at 5% mana. Have some patience and do what you can to make heroics pleasant for the group.

[twinkleblur]

you know its actually getting to the point that ive seen dps not get kicked because they have heroism..other than that you have no say in if you wanna stay or not.

[robzombay]

I think that you should say at the beginning of the instance to the healer "Do you think you could heal through some of the easier packs no CC? Yes then play as normal, no play slower. Also you have to understand that people are going through a change in mindset from get the done in 15 minutes to CC every mob but 1 and ff, its confusing to them when you go through and play as fast as you can.

Edit: If the group wants you to go slower then go slower you cant always play the way you want to. Also if you are wiping then your speed is not ok.

[haferflocken]

No we don't wipe cause of lack of cc, because the whole run until the wipe went real fast without cc. Then one group that is like every other wipes us. That doesn't mean that a CC would not have prevented the wipe, you can prevent all wipes with mass CC, excluding bosses. Fact, just fact. It's not the lack of CC, it's the inability to do a run without CC. Cure the disease not the symtomes. Hm just have to think about how that sentence reads.. Oh yeah it's easy without the CC, then comes the complacency, then the wipe. Then comes "oh who can be clame it on" - "yeah of course the tank, let's blame the tank in order to disguise our personal inability, thank god he made it apparent that he didn't want cc, now we have our scape goat".

Often times it's not the healer who complains. You know, I do runs so fast cause I know how it's like being a healer if it's not going fast enough. Maybe that's what I have to deal with.

Anyways what I'm I trying to achieve with the thread? Just some same opinions as mine, to be honest, so this thread is in fact not really noteworthy, just some ego pushing, hey i'm being honest.

[Nightstormer]

Robzombay makes a good pointt, it's of paramount import to play within the limits of your group. For example, I generally run now with no cc and a mitigation cooldown rotation but if anyone cc's or asks for cc I immediately slow down and on larger pulls (like the vortex pinnacle 6 pull before drake boss) specify my intent to use an aoe zerg tactic instead of cc and inform the healer I'll by helping him or her out with cooldowns/stuns/interrupts/kiting/other so they know what to expect.

TL;DR: Communicate!

[Mroz123]

I was in two HC (sfk,dm) recently with some tank from LFG. We literaly didn't stop the whole dung except for boss. It was insane. We survived it but it was very exhausting to healer (me)

[DerSenf]

So you are saying, wiping doesn't matter if you can finish the dungeon without "time consuming" CC?
Well, it might go faster that way and you sound like you don't care about the repair bills. But the problem is: The group isn't you alone.
Other people prefer to be a little slower instead of paying repairs that could be obviously aviodet.

For me, you sound like a selfish idiot (sorry, but i couldn't find a more fitting word), that thinks the way you do things is the right way and everybody has to accept this.
It is a multiplayer game, again, you are not alone. If you're going with your guild/friends that know how you are, you can do what you want. But if you have four random poeple you absolutly have to work WITH them and not against them.

[Deleted]

What i dislike about playing cataclysm heroics...

It's not blizzards fault it's the community's fault. I often play tank (pally), normally i'm a healer and I virtually never play dd. I used to raid alot in classic till wotlk, but not now. At a beginning of a heroic, often some random partymember rudely shouts at me for not letting the group CC, until after the first couple groups. Then sometime later, if i'm not kicked for some dumb reason like "want to chill the run", sometimes the healer just leaves. But everything's going fast as ever. Nobody complains about sh*t. Some time into the run, if it's not complete by now, we wipe, sometimes to a boss, sometimes to a grp, with me or some other guy last man standing, me having starred at the unit frames throughout teh fight (as tank), having aggro all the time, stunning, interrupting etc. I immediately get the blame, although thinking my part. They see me as maniac (not my guild or the people i know), but they don't see most of the other grps they join as non-optimal, but as NORMAL, SANE.

It is impossible to criticize the healer or dds, because they somehow noticed something in my playstyle that is "insane" (normal, fast for me) for them, and ignore every other reason for a potential wipe.

I think some people just need a change in perception, don't you think so too? They argue that cataclysm heroics are not like wotlk. Well it's very much like wotlk, with very few exeptions, where not talking about T10 gear etc. Today I even got blamed for acting like "god". What is that about?

How can most people not see what seems to me (and the big guilds) very obvious? No I can't just go with guildies, I "lost" all my heirloom items, and need them all back XD

CC is needed if your group can't outgear the instances yet. Let people CC or suffer the consequences.

If people say you act like "god" or say your pulls are too fast, maybe there is some truth in these words.

[Firecrest]

Your Healer is leaving because you're a terrible tank who is not setting up CC or letting him drink to full then pulling way more than he can actually heal you through. Grats. You are the reason why no one wants to PUG Heroics.

[Deleted]

wait? im confused..your mad because you cant plow through instances and you need CC and the group is kicking you?

actually, once you get a properly geared tank you dont need CC anymore.

friend of min nearing 50% epic geared and we've stopped using CC now when doing our daily hc

[Lorien]

It might simply be that many people enjoy playing the game at a moderate pace, instead of bashing through as fast as possible to keep a high Justice Points per hour ratio.

When someone in the group wants to go much faster than is comfortable for the others, everyone gets frustrated. Those wanting to go slower get flustered, and cannot/do not perform as well as they can. Even if you're all surviving each fight, it doesn't mean you couldn't do better, or that they're enjoying it. Also, some dps enjoy using their CC abilities - it's a part of their class and in-game identity.

You said it yourself - you're trying to build up points to buy heirloom items. Your post wreaks of selfishness - your speed and how you approach the instance is all about you and what suits your needs best.

There are several other reasons to play the game and run heroics aside from amassing points as fast as the game will permit.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to do fast heroic runs, but when you play with strangers or people with other priorities/preferences, you have to bend a little.

[haferflocken]

Your Healer is leaving because you're a terrible tank who is not setting up CC or letting him drink to full then pulling way more than he can actually heal you through. Grats. You are the reason why no one wants to PUG Heroics.

Yeah right most healer don't even set drink to a hotkey or don't know you can drink while pulling.

[Shamslam]

I'm glad you overgear the instances. Do you ever stop to think that the healer you pugged might be at like ilvl330 and can't handle chain pulling or CCless pulls yet? Just because you think you can handle it doesn't mean the rest of the group can. Because you aren't really the one keeping the run going, that healer is. Hell, if all the DPS can CC I only need you around for the boss fight anyway; it's not hard for even a crappy geared healer to heal a DPS getting attacked by 1 or 2 mobs.

[Lorien]

When I heal, I always prefer to drink and reposition myself with the dps before a pull is made.

As the tank, you know - or think you know - that everything will go smoothly, and you'll keep everything under control. The healer does not know this, and even if he/she does, they understand that you, the great haferflocken, may fall prey to your human condition and make a mistake.

Further, as the tank and only one person in a five-man party, you are not the only person able to pull a mob or take damage, and so you are also not the only concern of the healer. A patrol might walk by and blindside you; a dps might accidentally facepull; a hunter, warlock, or mage pet might go nuts and hit something it shouldn't; a dps might open up on a different mob than you, pull aggro, and get wiped out.

The speed limit on a road isn't 55 mph (or whatever number) because that's the fastest you can travel and still survive. The speed limit is supposed to be a safe speed at which everyone can operate comfortably and prevent/recover/rescue from accidents and unforeseen circumstances. If you like to go faster, there are places for you - it's always better to assemble with people looking to go faster as well. When you're running mainstream, expect to travel near the average speed of surrounding traffic.

[Joeygiggles]

I'm wondering how you came to the conclusion that being patient and providng good execution in heroics would be considered obnoxious. You first of all explain to the grp how you plan to pull before you go in guns blazing. It seems you have a mindset of a wrath kiddie where u can run in and aoe everything down. Maybe you clear em fast maybe not maybe someone dies, but the majority wants to succeed and if you chain pull or don't wait for healer mana or dps mana what have you of course they are going to leave. Moves like that cause unneeded wipes. Be considerate and do a test pull even and see if you will need the cc. Don't blame others because you aren't open minded