i dont think rets a dps spec anymore

[Cyros]

lulz? okay aoe might be abit low, but i fecking pwn on single target dps, in randoms/heroics atleast

[Prentice]

Try saying that to me and my fellow ENH shamans. We've had to deal with insane amounts of bias and poor dps for about as long as you have if not longer.

Oh i should add i do have a pally as well and have been playing him off and on since vanilla always ret.

At least you had a really strong arena comp for a while??

JK. Seriously, I would never blow off what enhancement shammys have had to deal with. We were in nearly the same boat during TBC. It was totally a bonding moment.

[Shelly]

Out of curiosity, why would you suggest that we're better on long fights? How long of a fight are you referring to? From what I have seen thus far, the fight needs to last ~3 minutes for me to reach my highest DPS. After that I start tailing off and fall to the middle of the pack again.

OK, you've got two different deals going on here.

Now is the problem that you can only achieve average dps when all your CDs are being blown or is the problem that after all your CDs are blown you're just "average."

Because reading it it sounds like epeen whining about how you used to be at the top of the charts and now you're in the middle. All of which totally ignores the most important question, which is "well how good is that middle?"

[Prentice]

OK, you've got two different deals going on here.

Now is the problem that you can only achieve average dps when all your CDs are being blown or is the problem that after all your CDs are blown you're just "average."

Because reading it it sounds like epeen whining about how you used to be at the top of the charts and now you're in the middle. All of which totally ignores the most important question, which is "well how good is that middle?"

A ret pallys cooldowns yield some very ridiculous numbers. Popping guardian presents a pet with a limited duration that deals a fair share of damage. He hits for 7-8k and crits for 10k+. Avenging Wrath is nothing new and present a huge damage buff. When these buffs are on CD, we are very VERY average. If the fight ends long after my CD's are used but before they are available again, I am looking at finishing somewhere near #10.

[Beckwin]

I assure you that optimal Inquisition uptime, regardless of what EJ says will significantly boost your DPS. There is no point in waiting to execute range, as you don't like...spam Exorcism during execute. You use your holy damaging abilities throughout the ENTIRE encounter.

[Prentice]

You use your holy damaging abilities throughout the ENTIRE encounter.

Probably not the right thread for your reply, but those holy damaging abilities are ridiculously weak outside of Exorcism and Hammer of Wrath.

[Beckwin]

Probably not the right thread for your reply, but those holy damaging abilities are ridiculously weak outside of Exorcism and Hammer of Wrath.

It is the correct thread, if you keep it up, Ret does great DPS. I haven't been disappointed yet. It doesn't matter if only Exorcism and HoW gain a 'huge' noticeable boost, it affects pretty much EVERY single ability we use.

[royals]

I do use recount, I actually wasn't aware it only tracked while I was alive.
But my dps was second as was my overall dmg, even on the others charts.

off topic: do you happen to know a system like recount that will keep it tracking even after death?
I'd like to have it running alongside Recount to see the difference, though I expect it would cut your dps down to like 500-1k if you died during a fight which would be kinda lame... xD

Skada continues to cound DPS until a fight is over. It is available on Curse. It will start the meters right when you first engage (Judge im assuming) and will stop when the boss dies or when you wipe. It's the best meter because as we all know, a dead dps is no dps! Happy hunting!

Royals - Rivendare - US

[BadgerAttorney]

Could be worse. You could of been a ret pally in vanilla or tbc.
dark days for that class.

<-- Retribution Paladin all the way through original Beta, Vanilla, TBC, WotLK & now Cata btw, so I've been around the block a bit.

My issue with Ret right now is the clunkiness of its rotation (haste dependency), and it's lack of abilities scaling properly in terms of damage output. TV, frankly, scales poorly for something that's supposed to be our big finisher... sure, we might have hit someone for 32k at 80, but at 85, oh noes, we hit someone/something for 32k, and we take what... 1/3 of it's health pool tops?

In a raid setting, unless the target is stationary, we lack the tools to really continuously deal damage, even on the level of Enhancement Shammies & Feral Druids.

For example, I do very well on Air Avatars, but poorly on Twilight Council (the latter of which is a very melee unfriendly fight to begin with).

[royals]

I assure you that optimal Inquisition uptime, regardless of what EJ says will significantly boost your DPS. There is no point in waiting to execute range, as you don't like...spam Exorcism during execute. You use your holy damaging abilities throughout the ENTIRE encounter.

^ Agreed
INQ is our #1 priority..
Our Holy Abilities:
Seal = Holy Dmg
Judge = Holy Dmg
TV= Holy Dmg
Exo = Holy Dmg

Only stuff left out is Crusader strike and our white hits.
Remember people that as our STR increases so does our Spell power, which in turn turns into more Holy Damage, if INQ is up this is in turn multiplied by 30%.

It is the #1 priority and your DPS meters (which you don't need to look at the the boss is dead) will reflect the fact that you kept it up the WHOLE fight. I see a VERY noticable difference when DPSing w/o INQ up and w/ it up.

For those RNG owns our class people think about this:
If INQ is up all the time, your art of war procs (which do drive our DPS up significantly) will be 30% larger if INQ is up. So to beat the RNG factor make sure you have INQ up and that procy'ness that you have to deal with will at least be hitting hard when you do get that pretty flashing light around the yellow skull

On another note I noticed someone ranting about how we just mash things off cooldown still. My comment to that is: "Don't". The reason for lack of dps as ret is choosing the wrong thing at the wrong time. Example: TV w/ 3HP is up, INQ is UP, AoW is up what do you do? well you could use zealotry, you could use TV you could exorsism. Its all about Priority not slam the flashy's when they proc. The fun part of ret these days is its not a set 969 rotation or 1112 - Move right malygos style rotation. We are given a basic rotation CS>Filler>CS ect. but it delves into more variation w/ the use of procs and abilities. No longer is a ret that does well on meters gonna be looked at like "Well I could roll a ret and do 10k because I can hit 3 buttons." Personally the Wrath model was boring for me. Judge CS DS.. hope for DS procs from 2pc t10. That stuff is just boring and doesn't really do much to keep me interested.

Another sidenote, can I just say how happy I am that I don't have constant required cleave in my rotation if I don't want it. I wish our DS actually hit for more than beans if I were to choose to use it, but massive AoE set into a single target rotation got pretty ugly sometimes >> See: Lich King fight w/ drudge ghouls :/ Thank you blizzard!

Happy Hunting!!

Royals, The Light of Dawn
Rivendare - US

[Soundeffects]

^ Agreed
INQ is our #1 priority..
Our Holy Abilities:
Seal = Holy Dmg
Judge = Holy Dmg
TV= Holy Dmg
Exo = Holy Dmg

Only stuff left out is Crusader strike and our white hits.
Remember people that as our STR increases so does our Spell power, which in turn turns into more Holy Damage, if INQ is up this is in turn multiplied by 30%.

It is the #1 priority and your DPS meters (which you don't need to look at the the boss is dead) will reflect the fact that you kept it up the WHOLE fight. I see a VERY noticable difference when DPSing w/o INQ up and w/ it up.

For those RNG owns our class people think about this:
If INQ is up all the time, your art of war procs (which do drive our DPS up significantly) will be 30% larger if INQ is up. So to beat the RNG factor make sure you have INQ up and that procy'ness that you have to deal with will at least be hitting hard when you do get that pretty flashing light around the yellow skull

On another note I noticed someone ranting about how we just mash things off cooldown still. My comment to that is: "Don't". The reason for lack of dps as ret is choosing the wrong thing at the wrong time. Example: TV w/ 3HP is up, INQ is UP, AoW is up what do you do? well you could use zealotry, you could use TV you could exorsism. Its all about Priority not slam the flashy's when they proc. The fun part of ret these days is its not a set 969 rotation or 1112 - Move right malygos style rotation. We are given a basic rotation CS>Filler>CS ect. but it delves into more variation w/ the use of procs and abilities. No longer is a ret that does well on meters gonna be looked at like "Well I could roll a ret and do 10k because I can hit 3 buttons." Personally the Wrath model was boring for me. Judge CS DS.. hope for DS procs from 2pc t10. That stuff is just boring and doesn't really do much to keep me interested.

Another sidenote, can I just say how happy I am that I don't have constant required cleave in my rotation if I don't want it. I wish our DS actually hit for more than beans if I were to choose to use it, but massive AoE set into a single target rotation got pretty ugly sometimes >> See: Lich King fight w/ drudge ghouls :/ Thank you blizzard!

Happy Hunting!!

Royals, The Light of Dawn
Rivendare - US

How sure are you that TV is holy dmg?

[unholyskipper]

Welcome to the world of being a hybrid; get over it.

Shaman have been going up and down constantly for years.

The good old days when shamans were my OT
im still upset that they changed that

[Jämeson]

I am really not having any trouble with ret dps right now. And we all WISH TV was holy damage.

[royals]

How sure are you that TV is holy dmg?

You are correct, TV is a percentage of weapon DMG, apologies for the mis info, that being said, a one liner sarcastic comment is neither constructive nor helpful, a simple correction would suffice.

~Royals

[Amghealme]

You.Are.Bad.At.This.Game.

[Damax]

i fail at new ret, I can spend minutes smashing the dummy with no art of war proc. I pull less dps on my lv 84 paladin than my lv 80 warlock, mage, dk

[Shelly]

A ret pallys cooldowns yield some very ridiculous numbers. Popping guardian presents a pet with a limited duration that deals a fair share of damage. He hits for 7-8k and crits for 10k+. Avenging Wrath is nothing new and present a huge damage buff. When these buffs are on CD, we are very VERY average. If the fight ends long after my CD's are used but before they are available again, I am looking at finishing somewhere near #10.

And how far behind #1 is that and how close are you to say #5 and how far are you from the tank?

I'm not saying that I disagree with the assertion that Paladin damage is low right now, or that it's got too much burst and far too little sustained. It's just that the numbers don't exist in a vacuum and just because you are "average" doesn't mean that you are bad or that your raid spot is up for replacement.

[Xothic]

The only thing I can't beat atm is a good hunter. Also Ret PvP is godlike.

[Noah37]

I'm playing Ret for PVP and for questing, and I'm working on my Prot gear.

[drukai]

I have to admit, when I have a ret hitting me in PVP, I'll just ignore it. Makes me feel bad for you, except I love arms, and I would wager a bet that ret is worse off than arms.