[Mechanics] Dark Intent (4.2)

[gherkin]

Base numbers updated to 4.0.6 mechanics. Key things to note:
1) Fixed survival hunter math
2) Fixed fire mage math
3) Included both 2H and 1H Unholy DK
4) Dropped 2H Frost DK due to lack of performance
5) Still no warriors - not high enough to justify the time required

Can someone confirm % of damage from dots for the following classes for me? Simcraft 4.0.3-32 (PTR ENABLED) was used.
Shadow Priest - I have 70.2%
Fire Mage - 42.75%
Feral Druid - 44.3%

Edit: Forgot to change the full spreadsheet dump. Will be done shortly.

[kabutteur]

Hello Gherkin, for feral druid actually (patch 4.0.3a) it is more something like 55% (rip 30~32%, rake 24~28%); this is not Simcraft results but just sum up of what I can see browsing my own WOL and of course a lot a feral ones which are not mine.

[Racon]

Based on revised numbers it's SPriest > Fire Mage. However, I see the H Maloriak fight touched on and I want to ask further about that. Assuming optimal play (having an eclipse ready to go etc) would you favor Boomkins for at least the aoe phases of this fight?

[gherkin]

Even factoring out optimal situations (pinning Solar early), and factoring in a priest who multi-dots, assuming equal skill and gear...
A Boomkin in 4pc T11 >= Shadow Priest who multidots

However, you as a Warlock must use Shadowflame on cooldown and throw out a corruption or two now and then to keep the DI stacked on your target. My rotation is Shadowflame, Corruption x 2, Hellfire, Shadowflame as soon as its off cooldown, Corruption x3, repeat

@Kabutteur - thanks, I'll compare with new WOL when people have 4.0.6 logs to use. I know feral dots went down, but the amount it went down by seems to be a bit more than I was expecting.

[dakalro]

Given the rather large difference between affliction and destruction in terms of how well they buff other casters (and how they benefit from getting the buff back), is it worthwhile to stay affliction (even with it being the lowest personal dps spec) in 4.0.6 assuming you always have a shadow priest/fire mage/boomkin or even for a resto druid on progression content at the least?

I played demonology all through ICC so a small chunk of lost DPS really isn't a big deal for me, provided its picked up somewhere else with extra.

Current numbers in OP show ~450 dps in BiS gear between an affli and a destro buffing a SP (and lower depending on the SP gear); depending on how you find destro v affli decide. Demo should pretty much always have other reasons to get as primary choice.
Though come 4.0.6 affli will get destroyed single target so should take that into account also.

[New]

Wouldn't using WoL for certain classes invalidate the data is some respect? Part of what makes the initial simulation craft information so good is that it creates information coming from the same source under the same variables.*

If its an issue at the coding level, *%s could be fixed at the source to ensure you're still getting the information from similar situations. I assume this is what Gherkin would be interested in as he is almost like a private investigator when it comes to this stuff.

If it is not an issue with the coding, then attempting to use WoL as a comparative tool for this analysis comes with some flaws. All classes with DOTS will probably experience a higher % of their damage from DOTS in practice as you factor in something as simple as run time.

[Deleted]

Well, I've done the math with a log of my Guild.

Question: What brings more DPS to you raid?

a) Two Warlocks (Destro), who can reach the new Immo Hastesoftcap with double DI Buff (losing the procc on two guildmembers)
b) Buffing two Shadows (17k dps, 65% of their dmg is Dotdmg, uptime from Di is 70% with an avarage of two stacks)

Well, the Uptimes and Stacks vary, but i Alternative A beats B for many dps.

Gotta post the simcraft Sheets for A later, B is simple math.

[vo1os]

Sorry, maybe I was inattentive, but I have few questions.
1. Is Shadow Priest's MindFlay(MF) counts as DoT ? Does it gain +9% damage from 3-stack buff?
2. About fire mage: calculation are based on mastery-based mages ? Does it count mage's bug when dots disappear ?

My opinion on dual-target bosses (Valiona, Council, Nefarian) druids and SP are the best DI targets.

[dakalro]

Well, I've done the math with a log of my Guild.

Question: What brings more DPS to you raid?

a) Two Warlocks (Destro), who can reach the new Immo Hastesoftcap with double DI Buff (losing the procc on two guildmembers)
b) Buffing two Shadows (17k dps, 65% of their dmg is Dotdmg, uptime from Di is 70% with an avarage of two stacks)

Well, the Uptimes and Stacks vary, but i Alternative A beats B for many dps.

Gotta post the simcraft Sheets for A later, B is simple math.

Considering your SPs dps seems not so great (going by dot%), what's your dps vs theirs on those fights. Check fights where locks have 2xDI vs fights where SPs get DI. Also consider Balance druids here, especially on dual target fights, they seemed to get more dps on those, on last patch at least. And how good the players are at surviving. Also 70% uptime is really low from a warlock, even destruction, have seen mostly above 80% uptime on DI.

If they whine too much, just be selfish on farm content, actual farm content. If they die too much, be smart and use on the players that are alive. The numbers here are very good when used as a variable when deciding and the calculations should be easy, simcraft for theoretical gains, logs for practical gains, survivability as the final variable.

Generally though players in a guild are about the same skill so default starting point is SPs get DI on single target. Moonkins on dual target I guess. With a couple of hours of work you should be able to decide.

[gherkin]

Well, I've done the math with a log of my Guild.

Question: What brings more DPS to you raid?

a) Two Warlocks (Destro), who can reach the new Immo Hastesoftcap with double DI Buff (losing the procc on two guildmembers)
b) Buffing two Shadows (17k dps, 65% of their dmg is Dotdmg, uptime from Di is 70% with an avarage of two stacks)

Well, the Uptimes and Stacks vary, but i Alternative A beats B for many dps.

Gotta post the simcraft Sheets for A later, B is simple math.

I have this math forthcoming. I'm just wrapping up a few 4.0.6 updates before i do so.

---------- Post added 2011-02-09 at 08:38 AM ----------

Sorry, maybe I was inattentive, but I have few questions.
1. Is Shadow Priest's MindFlay(MF) counts as DoT ? Does it gain +9% damage from 3-stack buff?
2. About fire mage: calculation are based on mastery-based mages ? Does it count mage's bug when dots disappear ?

My opinion on dual-target bosses (Valiona, Council, Nefarian) druids and SP are the best DI targets.

Mind flay counts. Direct damage from Devouring Plague does not (thanks New!).
Mage calculations are based on whatever SimCraft BIS profiles indicate. If these are wrong and you can obtain higher numbers with something else, please let me know.

[Deleted]

Let's begin:

The simcraftet 359 T11 SP would cast with dots: Shadowword:Pain: 11,6%, Mindflay: 30,1%, Vampiric Touch: 19,2%, Devouring Plaque: 12,5%
SO far: 73,4% from their DMG is Dotdmg. For their maximum

SP gaining DPS by Haste: 703 dps
SP gaining DPS by Procc (70%uptime, 2 stacks): 764 dps
-> 1467 DPS


The 17236 DPS SP in my Raid casts: Shadoword:Pain: 16,3%, Mindflay: 19,7%, Vampiric Touch: 19%, Devouring Plaque: 6%
62% from their DMG is Dotdmg.

SP gaining DPS by Haste: 670 dps
SP gaining DPS by Procc (70%uptime, 2 stacks): 448 dps
-> 1118 DPS



Me, Simcraftet, gaining by Haste: 1130 DPS




Sooo, i think I exaggerated. Conclusion: It shouldn't be, but it depends on your Raid and the people in it.

[cast]

Mind flay counts. Direct damage from Devouring Plague does not (thanks New!).

Imp DP deals 30% of the total damage thus benefiting from Dark Intent since it buffs the damage of the dot.

[New]

Imp DP deals 30% of the total damage thus benefiting from Dark Intent since it buffs the damage of the dot.

That was my assumption as well. However, go out and test it yourself and you will see it does not affect the initial nuke from Devouring Plague. You will see the comment you quoted as being correct.

[gherkin]

@Networkz: Yeah, you're not going to out-"gain" a semi-competant shadow priest, but you will out-"gain" some classes and terribly geared players. I will have an official "When it's appropriate" list up shortly.

Note that this would only apply to Destruction warlocks who can get the +2 Immolate tick as a result of stacking. It is ~never~ appropriate for a Demo or Affl Lock to do this. The gain is simply non-existent in these two cases.

---------- Post added 2011-02-10 at 11:06 AM ----------

The Warlock Circle Jerk, and when its appropriate:

First off, it is never appropriate for an Affliction or Demonology Warlock to receive it from another Warlock. The gains simply are not there. The only thing you gain in this situation is 3% Haste for an approximate 600 dps. That doesn't even register on the gains any other class or healer would have. The only situation this might work is 2 Paladin Healers, 2 Death Knight Tanks, 4 Warriors and 2 Warlocks, but if you joined this raid then God have mercy on your soul shards.


The conditions for this situation are very precise:

Two Destruction warlocks who, with 1 Dark Intent each, sit at exactly 26.2233% Haste raid buffed. This means that with a second Dark Intent they will be at 30.01% for the extra Immolate tick and Conflagrate damage, with zero extra haste wasted due to passing this "soft cap". The .01 is important because sometimes Blizzard rounds funny, and we want to play it safe.

VS

Two Destruction Warlocks + Any Two Other Raiders


26.2233% / 3% DI / 5% Raid Aura = 16.71% from gear = 2140 Rating.

First, lets run the profile through SimCraft, adjusted to have 2140 Haste Rating.
No DI: 23178
1 DI: 24272
Copy paste of SimCraft stats for Haste: Spell Haste 26.22% Raid Buffed, 2140 Gear Rating

Now lets give them a second DI (increase spell haste rating to 2590 - the 30.01% haste cap.)
New DPS: 25294

Gain: 1022 DPS.

That's fairly substantial, lets add it all up:
Destruction Warlock 1 Gain from First DI: 1094
Destruction Warlock 1 Gain from Second DI: 1022 (Haste Only)
Destruction Warlock 2 Gain from First DI: 1094
Destruction Warlock 2 Gain from Second DI: 1022 (Haste Only)

Raid DPS gain: 4232

Look at the Destruction ranking charts for your particular guild.
Take the two highest ranked classes you have and add them together.
Is the total above 4232?

YES: Circle jerking is bad
NO: Enjoy the self love

The question will remain: does this apply to your guild and your players? Most of the time, yes. Players of similar skill levels tend to play together, but not always. However, I would like to make one thing very clear: a badly played Shadow Priest will still equal if not out-perform Dual Destruction. This is because they are so far ahead of everyone else in terms of the 9% buff. If your Priest is so bad that Dual Destruction is better, then I encourage you to rethink inviting this person to your raid in the first place.

---------- Post added 2011-02-10 at 11:08 AM ----------

One thing to note: I used 2590 Haste Rating instead of 2588 because SimCraft did something very peculiar - the difference of those two points registered a gap of 400 dps.

[gualdhar]

looking at the raid dps numbers and your content, it seems that unless you've got a SP/Boom/Fire/Feral/Survival dps, or worthwhile healer, its worth it to circle jerk in the case you described (assassination rogue and lower is no more than 2k dps raid bonus). That somehow doesn't seem right to me. Am I looking at this correctly?

[Deleted]

it is never appropriate for an Affliction or Demonology Warlock to cast it on another Warlock.

Shouldn't that read "it is never appropriate for a Affliction or Demo warlock to receieve it from another Warlock."?

Since it is the reciever who would get two stacks.

IE: Affli--->Destro--->chump
Stacks: 1 2 1

[gherkin]

Good catch, edit incoming.

@Gualdhar: It's worth it to circle jerk it, ONLY if the two warlocks in question both break 30% raid buffed haste as a result. If they do not, it's a bad thing. What can I change to make this more clear? (not insulting, asking legitimately - clarity > all)

[gualdhar]

No, I understood it, I just couldn't believe it

[Deleted]

What about in my situation above? Where there's one affli and one destro?

[gherkin]

25294 - 23178 = 2116 DPS from 2 di's on one warlock.

Using my guild's roster as an example:
Add this to any combination of Demonology (Me) + X and compare to any combination of Demonology + X and Destruction + Y.

In my guild we either have 2 Shadow priests or 1 Shadow and 1 Boomkin, and sometimes dual boomkins.
Dual Shadows: 7468
Shadow/Balance: 6255
Balance/Balance: 5042
Demo/Destro/Shadow: 5836
Demo/Destro/Balance: 4619

Basically, if you have 1 Shadow Priest they should get it. Who get's the second one is entirely dependant on your raid makeup, in which case Destruction (passing 30% haste in the process) ranks 6th.

---------- Post added 2011-02-10 at 11:53 AM ----------

Revised language:
A Destruction Warlock who passes 30% haste with 2 stacks ranks 6th in these numbers regardless of configuration. If you have nothing above you in rank, it goes to that particular Destro lock, who then himself picks someone else according to the list.