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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by cleotaurus View Post
    Unless some classes mechanics were changed in the patch, shouldnt the relative rankings remain the same? The only thing that was changed was the percentages....lowering everyones numbers by the same proportion. I guess it may change around the rankings for classes whos primary benefit from DI was the haste rather than the damage increase....but those classes were near the bottom anyway
    If I remember right also the old version based on a SimulationCraft version where the ShadowPriest support had a bug counting the effects of the Talent "Darkness" twice. Not sure how much (or if at all) this influences the results of the Dark Intent list.

  2. #222
    Stood in the Fire rethea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    For the most part it would be a across the board reduction by 2%. But 4.1 also introduced some new gear which might effect some numbers and some of the SimC profiles used for the data inputs might have been changed to better reflect live since the numbers were last generated.

    So while one can make a pretty good educated guess at what the numbers will be like after 4.1 it would still be nice to see the numbers.
    I know some fire mage mechanics changed because my usual target when our spriest is healing doesn't want it anymore...
    To quote the great sage Ook Ook, "you can take the derk out of the jib, but you shouldn't put the jib in the derk."

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by rethea View Post
    I know some fire mage mechanics changed because my usual target when our spriest is healing doesn't want it anymore...
    Maybe he respecced to Arcane? For a firemage this does not make sense. Despite Dot Crits no longer proccing ignite, a large part of the damage is done by dots. Actually this change fixed Ignite Munching which before would "kill" some dot dmg (in total it is a around 1% dmg nerf, appearently, though).

  4. #224
    Any chance this is gonna be updated for 4.1/4.2 numbers?
    no way a spriest is gettin that much dps gain from it now.

  5. #225
    Legendary! gherkin's Avatar
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    In progress right now. Simcraft now does this for me so I'm doing it in bulk, which is taking a while...
    And yes, the relative rankings will stay the same. This will probably be the last time I update this post because % of damage gained does not seem to change as gear on both sides increases.

    ---------- Post added 2011-05-20 at 01:07 PM ----------

    Updated for 4.2 mechanics using 372 BIS 4.1 gear profiles.

    New numbers were obtained using SimCraft, not excel or a custom application. Instructions for you to repeat this going forward forthcoming.

    R.I.P. YARG

  6. #226
    Deleted
    Thanks Gherkin

  7. #227
    Deleted
    Thanks Gherkin for the update on the numbers..

    one thing though that i can't seem to understand, is the uptime arcane mages give..

    to my knowledge arcane mages use no dots what so ever.
    are any of their spells able to proc DI, and in that case do you know which ?
    Last edited by mmoc8d97796641; 2011-05-24 at 03:16 PM.

  8. #228
    Legendary! gherkin's Avatar
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    Arcane Missiles & Flame Orb are both treated as periodic effects by SimCraft. I have not tested if they actually proc DI or not.

    Keep in mind that this is uptime of at least 1 stack, not the full 3. I have no way of determining the latter without about 7 hours of meticulous copy/pasting into spreadsheets. I did that for 4.0 and it was a terrible, terrible waste of time.

    R.I.P. YARG

  9. #229
    hey

    i just went to the dummies with our mage, in arcane, no procs at all sadly. he switched to fire, and stacked us both up for 3. actually, not overly sure about flame orb, but am rather sure that missiles didn't.

    obviously, i was just standing there, not cating, the procs came from the mage alone

  10. #230
    Deleted
    Hello I have a question regarding who should get DI in our raids

    We have 2 spriests and 1 moonkin (and usually 2 locks but sometimes just one)

    I realise that in theory the spriests should get it, but looking at our dps meters it can differ everything from 5k-12k dps between the moonkin and spriests (moonkin being on top)

    I did some checks with Simcraft and DI. It calculates that a moonkin in BiS gear should do around 26720dps WITH DI on single target. Which seems fairly accurate to how our moonkin performs. (plus a few hundred dps but nothing that really matters). The problem is that our spriests do around 21-23k while Simcraft says that a spriest should do: 28445 dps. Now this is a pretty big difference.

    Thats just an example of a solo target fight (atramedes, blended with many kills so its quite accurate). Now to mulittarget fights the difference is even bigger. Say omnotron/council the dps difference can be everything from 5-12 as mentioned above.


    I assume that the moonkin should get it since it has a 1% higher uptime on DI on the lock (I realise that this is a really really small difference but everything adds up) And the fact that the moonkin usually does More damage than what Simcraft says and spriests do less. I see it so that if the spriest should in theory do more damage than the moonkin but in practise does less, it's obvious that the moonkin should get it.


    What do you guys think?

    (Can link to logs and stuff if it makes it easier)

    I'm also wondering if there's any fairly accurate way to see who should get DI by just comparing the dps between the players in raid. I mean, does moonkin go before spriest as soon as the dps is equal? does moonkin go ahead at 1k dps above? 3k? etc..
    (I also realise that this isnt 100% accurate but something small to go on when deciding who should get it "on-the-fly", meaning, without calculating everything mid-raid.
    Last edited by mmoc15cdbb3260; 2011-06-08 at 10:29 PM.

  11. #231
    Deleted
    In favor of the warlock, the personal uptime is better when he puts it on a bDruid. Also, the DPS-gain difference is roughly 200 DPS. I'd say, if your moonkin is putting out so much more that the warlocks just should put it on them. (or atleast one of them)

  12. #232
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gherkin View Post
    The Warlock Circle Jerk, and when its appropriate:
    This section should be removed entirely, as I believe that dark intent when cast on another warlock cancels out that warlocks own DI. This is what I saw happen the other night when I casted DI on my raids second warlock (no other dot classes) and the second warlock's DI on the resto druid disappeared.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  13. #233
    Thank you for all the hard work and information Gherkin. With the probable upcomming nerfs of 12% to three of the shadow priests dots (though a 12% increase to one) I am surprised that they still gain the most from DI. Can you confirm/deny please whether these changes have been taken into account for the 4.2 figures? Yes I did read that mechanics were included but not sure that includes the above. Moonkins too have a lot of changes coming up which will affect their gain from it as well. Thank you for your time.

  14. #234
    Deleted
    Holy Paladins' Holy Radiance counts as a HoT and with the reduced cooldown coming up on 4.2, it gives the buff for 17 seconds every 20 seconds, if it is used on cooldown, as it should be. That would still place them under druids, and probably under shamans, but definately not last on the line, concerning healers.

  15. #235
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Sepharoth View Post
    Holy Paladins' Holy Radiance counts as a HoT and with the reduced cooldown coming up on 4.2, it gives the buff for 17 seconds every 20 seconds, if it is used on cooldown, as it should be. That would still place them under druids, and probably under shamans, but definately not last on the line, concerning healers.
    Only Disc. Priests below them then.

  16. #236
    Deleted
    I followed one of your warlock leveling guides to get to 80 over a year ago, haven't loved another class the same since. As always great guide, great guy. Thanks

  17. #237
    Thank you for all the hard work and information Gherkin. With the probable upcomming nerfs of 12% to three of the shadow priests dots (though a 12% increase to one) I am surprised that they still gain the most from DI. Can you confirm/deny please whether these changes have been taken into account for the 4.2 figures? Yes I did read that mechanics were included but not sure that includes the above. Moonkins too have a lot of changes coming up which will affect their gain from it as well. Thank you for your time.
    Mind Flay got buffed by 12%, and when talking game mechanics, Mind Flay counts as a DoT.
    They're (short for They are) describes a group of people. "They're/They are a nice bunch of guys." Their indicates that something belongs/is related to a group of people. "Their car was all out of fuel." There refers to a location. "Let's set up camp over there." There is also no such thing as "could/should OF". The correct way is: Could/should'VE, or could/should HAVE.
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  18. #238
    Doesn't this thread need an update, Dark Intent is no longer 9% for both sides? Excuse me if it's already updated, but I'm pretty sure the values of dps gains per class were very identical to what we see now.
    Now these points of data make a beautiful line.

  19. #239
    Deleted
    I think it's 3 % (1 % x 3) for our targets now... but that wouldn't change the order of usefulness per class as far as I can tell. 3 % haste for whoever benefits most of it would still be good even though they don't get the 9% anymore. In turn we'd still benefit most from whichever class and spec would proc it most often, so our preferred targets would remain the same, too.

  20. #240
    I know they sort of remain the same, I don't need to run calculations to tell you that. Next time please read, I'm talking about the dps gains, they are inaccurate.
    Now these points of data make a beautiful line.

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