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  1. #581
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    The evocation bug is very interesting. I always played with molten armour (up to 420s Fights), but i was always unsure about that. My best results were always with molten only or already only. Can`t wait to get my hands on the next simcraft release. Thanks for the information Hinalover!

  2. #582
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antueater View Post
    But doesn't it rely heavily on wether your wearing normal or heroic T11? Wouldn't the pure increase of stats (and mainly int) justify to already switch at maybe 2/3 T12 set items and maybe one off-item if you are mainly in 359s?
    Yes, I believe that's the case. Those who are saying that you don't switch to T12 (391) until you get all 4 pieces are the ones who have all T11 372. The minor stats upgrade doesn't outweigh the T11 set bonuses.

    I think the same applies if you do normal raids... If you have 4T11 (359), then switch to T12 (378) when you get all 4 pieces.

    I only have 3T11 (shoulders never dropped for our one Nef kill), so I'm upgrading to T12 as I get the VP.

  3. #583
    The Lightbringer Asera's Avatar
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    Yes, I believe that's the case. Those who are saying that you don't switch to T12 (391) until you get all 4 pieces are the ones who have all T11 372. The minor stats upgrade doesn't outweigh the T11 set bonuses.
    I was under the impression that 378 T12 4 piece > 372 T11 4 piece for PvE frost though.
    red panda red panda red panda!

  4. #584
    Old God Swizzle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asera View Post
    I was under the impression that 378 T12 4 piece > 372 T11 4 piece for PvE frost though.
    It is for all specs now that it has been shown to be very nice for Arcane.

  5. #585
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swizzle View Post
    It is for all specs now that it has been shown to be very nice for Arcane.
    I didn't realize that. Despite trying to keep current, I guess I've fallen a couple days behind on my reading! This stuff moves quickly.

  6. #586
    Maybe this has been asked, but skimming through the replies as much as I can, I haven't found the answer. I just switched to my mage for Firelands and am currently Arcane, but I'm somehow remembering somewhere someone saying Frost can pull a bit more then Arcane (if you're average geared as Arcane, no heroic t11 pieces).

    If you're wondering, my armory is in my signature, if you wanted to take a look at the gear to see if it'd be better to go Frost then stay Arcane.

    Thanks so much!

  7. #587
    @Sangriaa

    That depends on your raid setup. First of all, are you 10s or 25s? What buffs do you have in your raid (Haste and both crit buffs)? Is someone else contributing the 3% DMG buff (Hunter, Retri, second Arcane Mage)?

    If you can try out frost, without loosing your 3% raiddmg buff, I would say - just go ahead and give it a try and see by yourself, what numbers you can crunch out after getting the rotation done.

  8. #588
    25m raid, we have 4 mages altogether and they're all arcane. Lol. We also make sure we have a balance group to obtain all raid buffs possible.

  9. #589
    Well, swap your Soul Casket for TM if you have one, convince one of the Arcane Mages to give you Focus Magic, reforge to IL-Shatter crit cap and rest to haste/mastery and give it a try! Check out Kuni's Frost Mage guide. It's awesome.

    You might as well go and simulate your toon with your different spec reforgings and in a Patchwerk/Helter Skelter scenario... but a short round of Baradin 25man should give you a good feeling if you like Frost in a raid environment or not.

  10. #590
    Quote Originally Posted by Hinalover View Post
    I would need to test but I'm guessing that Frostbolt will still be better.

    So I decided to see and with a mostly 378 gear set (some higher items and the DMC:V) and I ran it through rawr and the molten armor glyph came out slightly better after optimizing though the difference is minimal.

    The main advantage is that you'll have an easier time to reach the critcap or get some extra haste/mastery for all spells at the cost of some crit for only frostbolt.

    I'll see what I can do with a bis setup and run it through simcraft after the evocation bug got fixed.


    Edit:

    While using rawr with a BiS setup it showed the Frostbolt glyph on top because I couldn't snag crit away because the setup is crit and hit capped while reforging out of a lot of crit.

    So I assume that the molten armor glyph only comes out as the better option under one of 2 conditions.

    1: You need it to reach the crit cap
    2: You can reforge out of crit into other stats while retaining the crit cap
    Last edited by takolin; 2011-07-20 at 09:44 PM.
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  11. #591
    I love you kuni <3

  12. #592
    I love this guide

    I have a Fire MS and Frost OS for fights like Baleroc and Majordormo, I just dps in my Fire Gear then and normally end up in top 5 of our 25man raid

  13. #593
    Had my first read to prepare myself for when I get my 4P, and I must say there was more to frost than I expected. It's a good thing, as it will be that much more fun than arcane.

    Probably been asked already, but hey there are alot of pages;
    For heavy movement, you have both Freeze and Deep Freeze on CD, 2 FoF and a Brain Freeze up. Would it be better to use FFB with the FoFs or drag out IL > IL > FFB? Also, at which point would it be a dps increase/decrease to blink? (asking since fire was better off not blinking unless fight mechanics required it)

  14. #594
    Deleted
    nice guide!!!

  15. #595
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eschatonin View Post
    Had my first read to prepare myself for when I get my 4P, and I must say there was more to frost than I expected. It's a good thing, as it will be that much more fun than arcane.

    Probably been asked already, but hey there are alot of pages;
    For heavy movement, you have both Freeze and Deep Freeze on CD, 2 FoF and a Brain Freeze up. Would it be better to use FFB with the FoFs or drag out IL > IL > FFB? Also, at which point would it be a dps increase/decrease to blink? (asking since fire was better off not blinking unless fight mechanics required it)
    I believe I'm correct in saying it's much better to use BF+FOF than use them seperately, will give your FFB a big crit, damage from mastery, and a massive ignite.

  16. #596
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    Quote Originally Posted by zackkaufen View Post
    I believe I'm correct in saying it's much better to use BF+FOF than use them seperately, will give your FFB a big crit, damage from mastery, and a massive ignite.
    In 4-piece T12, it'd better to use BF every proc since it will have a higher proc rate than FoF.

  17. #597
    Herald of the Titans Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eschatonin View Post
    For heavy movement, you have both Freeze and Deep Freeze on CD, 2 FoF and a Brain Freeze up. Would it be better to use FFB with the FoFs or drag out IL > IL > FFB? Also, at which point would it be a dps increase/decrease to blink? (asking since fire was better off not blinking unless fight mechanics required it)
    Depends how far you have to move, and for how long. Consider each instant a GCD's amount of movement time. If you have to move less than or equal to 2 GCDs, FoF+BF FFB then lance. If 3, then drag it out. I would personally consider blink if I had no procs up and had to move again further than 1 GCD's duration of time.

  18. #598
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    I just need to ask, has there been no theorycrafting on firepower? Nobody seems to recommend speccing to it. Wouldn't that talent increase the damage done by frostfire orb by loads and frostfirebolt a little too in the side?

  19. #599
    Herald of the Titans Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howdyho View Post
    I just need to ask, has there been no theorycrafting on firepower? Nobody seems to recommend speccing to it. Wouldn't that talent increase the damage done by frostfire orb by loads and frostfirebolt a little too in the side?
    You lose 2% haste or ignite. It was found to be an awful choice in comparison.

  20. #600
    Old God Swizzle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuni Zyrekai View Post
    You lose 2% haste or ignite. It was found to be an awful choice in comparison.
    I'll run a sim of it using full BiS T12 gear. Perhaps the 4-piece bonus puts it ahead of 2% Haste, who knows?

    Firepower: 38,065 DPS
    NWP: 38,259 DPS

    You lose 4 FrB per fight with Firepower and your FFB/FFO deal about 600 more damage (less than 100 more damage per FFO tick). Though, SimCraft might be bugged since I saw no FFO explosions from the second part of the Firepower talent, so the results might not be 100% accurate until I get some form of confirmation that FFO is not meant to explode with Firepower.

    Confirmed that SimCraft has FFO exploding with 3/3 Firepower but not exploding at 2/3 Firepower with 50,000 iterations. Seems like either the worst luck in the planet or a coding bug?
    Last edited by Swizzle; 2011-07-23 at 12:04 AM.

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