Possibly low dps. What dps do you pull in heroics?

[Noxia]

If you trigger 3 orbs during the MB cooldown you wouldve triggered those 3 orbs anyway... the cooldown on it doesnt change and you are still using the same spells between cooldowns. Additionally, if you are casting it on CD you dont risk losing empowered shadows because you can cast it again before empowered shadows falls off. In my opinion, the ludicrously small DPS gain is actually non-existent due to the last second decision making process of deciding to cast another MF or to cast MB if you are waiting on that last flay tick to see if you get an orb (having higher latency also contributes to this).

EDIT: Did a simcraft using my gear and it said 11122.5 DPS is what I can do (with using a volcanic pot, cant remember how to disable pot usage in simcraft). I did 10199 and about 10.4k on 2 dummy tests and I made some mistakes in the rotation with high latency (I think I clipped flay 3 or 4 times), I think this shows well enough that what I am doing is just fine in terms of play and advice. I would rather use that half a second of decision making on other more important things like raid awareness or other important aspects of our DPS. If I ever get my rotation absolutely perfect and have nothing else to worry about, I will consider checking my orbs to make sure I have one.

The better gear you get, the bigger this "ludicrously small dps gain" gets. Seriously it's not a good idea to cast mind blast on cooldown, stop making excuses for your own laziness. Watching procs and making decisions on the go based on that is part of the game. Shadow priests use a priority based system so mindless rotations will always end up as a dps loss. This is what seperates the best shadow priests from average.

[TheRabidDeer]

The better gear you get, the bigger this "ludicrously small dps gain" gets. Seriously it's not a good idea to cast mind blast on cooldown, stop making excuses for your own laziness. Watching procs and making decisions on the go based on that is part of the game. Shadow priests use a priority based system so mindless rotations will always end up as a dps loss. This is what seperates the best shadow priests from average.

Casting MB on CD is not a rotation, its still a priority system. Also, do note that I say the ludicrously small DPS gain is non-existent, not that it is actually a ludicrously small DPS gain (personally, I think its only a DPS gain in the simulations because of 0 latency and instant reaction time). I will take my real world sample and experience with me, while you make more mistakes in the raid and in your priority system to attempt to maximize DPS, when you will likely end up doing slightly less DPS as a result. Remember, simulations are in fact simulations and dont account for a lot of things that happen.

[harky]

Most Simulations default to ~100 MS latency. Instant reaction time is fine as the spell-queue system allows you to not cast reactively at all.

Either way it is no harder to cast MB only when you have orbs instead of casting it on cooldown. Power Auras is your friend. Even if it was more difficult since it is indeed more DPS (and not an insignificant amount) having it be harder would be no reason to not do it. Doing every little DPS gain you can is what separates good DPS from bad DPS.

[Deleted]

thanks, for all the advices. Idk i guees my dps i fine.

I'm doing around 8,7k on dummies atm, i probably loose some dps due to my shitty main-hand. It is cursed, havent been able to replace it yet. Cannot include armory link because i havent posted enough. So my character name is Köttpräst and i play on stormscale eu.

If you trigger 3 orbs during the MB cooldown you wouldve triggered those 3 orbs anyway... the cooldown on it doesnt change and you are still using the same spells between cooldowns. Additionally, if you are casting it on CD you dont risk losing empowered shadows because you can cast it again before empowered shadows falls off. In my opinion, the ludicrously small DPS gain is actually non-existent due to the last second decision making process of deciding to cast another MF or to cast MB if you are waiting on that last flay tick to see if you get an orb (having higher latency also contributes to this).

EDIT: Did a simcraft using my gear and it said 11122.5 DPS is what I can do (with using a volcanic pot, cant remember how to disable pot usage in simcraft). I did 10199 and about 10.4k on 2 dummy tests and I made some mistakes in the rotation with high latency (I think I clipped flay 3 or 4 times), I think this shows well enough that what I am doing is just fine in terms of play and advice. I would rather use that half a second of decision making on other more important things like raid awareness or other important aspects of our DPS. If I ever get my rotation absolutely perfect and have nothing else to worry about, I will consider checking my orbs to make sure I have one.

I find that keeping mb on cd isnt the best, since ive notice that i have recasted dots without es. but i havent seen a difference in terms of dps. But it makes everything like you said easier.

and what is that addon you use for dots etc?

[TheRabidDeer]

Most Simulations default to ~100 MS latency. Instant reaction time is fine as the spell-queue system allows you to not cast reactively at all.

Either way it is no harder to cast MB only when you have orbs instead of casting it on cooldown. Power Auras is your friend. Even if it was more difficult since it is indeed more DPS (and not an insignificant amount) having it be harder would be no reason to not do it. Doing every little DPS gain you can is what separates good DPS from bad DPS.

Spell-queue system can work against you as shadow, since you (or I) would queue up a flay 300ms ahead, then you get another SW: pain tick and that last flay tick and suddenly you could have 2 orbs and another full flay + another sw: pain tick or two (resulting in missing orbs entirely). Anyway, you guys have your methods and I have mine... all I know is that I know I perform well with what I do right now.

If we ever reach haste levels of that of cookie I am gonna hate the queue system since I tend to double-cast a lot on that fight since I am a masher for some spells =\

EDIT: I use mfclip btw

[Tryinmilkme]

@OP, You sound on par. I am ilvl 341 raid hit capped and I pull 9.5-10 on bosses and 12k with an Affl lock in the grp. As we get more Int are damage seems to scale very well. I find that it is a must that you use SWD on cd otherwise we will go oom after about 3 mins.

[Zalavaaris]

10k dps in a heroic sounds good to me, I do around 18-20k on a tank and spank and aound 11-15k on movement fights.

[Tryinmilkme]

10k dps in a heroic sounds good to me, I do around 18-20k on a tank and spank and aound 11-15k on movement fights.

You must be refering to 25 man raid buffed???? Because there is no way you are pulling 18-20k in a 5 man unless you are refering to the 2nd boss in Vortex with a BL and a lock in the grp.

I call BS.

[zenkai]

You must be refering to 25 man raid buffed???? Because there is no way you are pulling 18-20k in a 5 man unless you are refering to the 2nd boss in Vortex with a BL and a lock in the grp.

I call BS.

I agree, the only time I see people spike to 20k in heroic fights is OP DKs and Prot Warriors doing massive AE dmg

[Karzen]

I can do about 11-12k on bosses in my poorly optimized shadow gear (too much sprit and mastery, not enough haste and crit). Trash, using a combination of dots on one mob, Mind Spike / Mind Blast another, I can do about 8-9k.

[tekkitan]

I'm doing between 7k and 11k at level 82 on boss fights. I am hoping it will stay consistent or even get better. Usually I do double the damage everyone else does, not sure if this is normal or what...

[dynazty]

You realize that Shadow word death will give you 10% of your mana back right? If your actually having trouble with mana then add that into your rotation. Make sure your not using Mind Blast with 1 orb because in the long run that spell is going to eat your mana away. If your not using Archangel and Evangelism...well you need to re-think that. Use that everytime its up and not just for when mana is low. It all works out in the end.

[Deleted]

You're fine using Mind Blast on 1 orb, provided you're about to lose empowered shadow buff, otherwise let it rip on 3 meaty orbs

[Worshaka]

You must be refering to 25 man raid buffed???? Because there is no way you are pulling 18-20k in a 5 man unless you are refering to the 2nd boss in Vortex with a BL and a lock in the grp.

I call BS.

You're calling BS on me too, for Eurnak in tides I managed 19.9k dps until I was MC'd. This was with BL and Boomkin in the group... I believe the group make up was myself, boomkin, shammy, warrior & feral druid (tank).

Of course that number is with a stupidly high BL uptime and all that, but considering my Aussie ping and the fact im not the best in the world I believe 18K possible.

and for the record I was told i was doing 19.9k until the MC by the boomkin in the group over vent, it wasn't something I noticed.

[Tryinmilkme]

You're calling BS on me too, for Eurnak in tides I managed 19.9k dps until I was MC'd. This was with BL and Boomkin in the group... I believe the group make up was myself, boomkin, shammy, warrior & feral druid (tank).

Of course that number is with a stupidly high BL uptime and all that, but considering my Aussie ping and the fact im not the best in the world I believe 18K possible.

and for the record I was told i was doing 19.9k until the MC by the boomkin in the group over vent, it wasn't something I noticed.

I think you are missing my point. Is it possible to do 20k dps under BL with a caster friendly make up, yes. However, when talking about average dps numbers you should not include fights that you are under Blood Lust or Damage Multipling modifiers such as 2nd boss in vortex, last boss in Grim Batol.

If we are quoting dps under BL and ultimate dps factors then I pull 240k dps because I did it one time on the last boss in Throne. See how dumb that sounds, I hope you understand now.

[Verjil]

On a mildly related note, I smirk involuntarily when I hit myself with 2x 550k~ish SWD backlash and blow myself away. Remember: You are your own worst enemy!

I love to do that, then rage out on the healer and call him/her bad for letting me die

[Worshaka]

I think you are missing my point. Is it possible to do 20k dps under BL with a caster friendly make up, yes. However, when talking about average dps numbers you should not include fights that you are under Blood Lust or Damage Multipling modifiers such as 2nd boss in vortex, last boss in Grim Batol.

If we are quoting dps under BL and ultimate dps factors then I pull 240k dps because I did it one time on the last boss in Throne. See how dumb that sounds, I hope you understand now.

Wow we don't include a group buff... so lets strip 8% magic damage, lets strip kings/Motw, while we're at it lets strip AI and any SP % increase... now that I think about it I used a temp buff archangel, lets strip that because thats unfair as well by your logic. I used berkserking too, better remove that.

Point is actual dps includes group buffs, to selectively include some and not others is ridiculous.

The only conjecture here is about BL uptime, not the fact that it was available and as I pointed out I understand it's not a true reflection of true DPS... but if i'm able to pull 20K dps under BL, how much do you think BL contributes to that number... BL doesn't double your damage, it probably increases the damage by 40% for it's uptime... so assuming 100% uptime it probably inflated my number from around the 15K mark. However you can expect some uptime so I imagine in a true setting that 16K is more than possible, and that was the context of my post, to give an upper limit to what you can do with perfect conditions and base an educated guess at the true number you could generate.

For the new VoA boss I managed 14K on most attempts, and that was without BL and other possible friendly caster buffs.

---------- Post added 2010-12-24 at 11:22 AM ----------

On a mildly related note, I smirk involuntarily when I hit myself with 2x 550k~ish SWD backlash and blow myself away. Remember: You are your own worst enemy!

BL is hardly on the same page as the buff you get on the final boss in throne... to even infer that to be the case is retarded. BL at best increases your damage by 40% for it's uptime... and that's assuming your class gets a linear based effect from it which isn't the case. There is even some decay in haste, although there is less decay than there is with crit for example.

In groups without BL I consitently hit the 15K mark assumin 8% magic damage is available, if not i'll consistently hit 13 to 14K depending on the movement necessary for the encounter.... However when melee or other classes talk about their DPS i hardly see them say that figures including sunder and other melee friendly buffs are invalid numbers like you guys are trying to assert.

[wildwind]

I agree with Tryinmilkme's thinking. when referring to other ppl's dps, most valuable comparison is to the average dps. what am i doing vs what other ppl are doing on average. of course there are highs like bl or team buff. but you can't expect those buff always there. to see if a person is doing adequate dps is to compare dps against other ppl's average, not their high

[Deleted]

Thats true, you are doing absolutley fine pulling that dps, i know its good but what ive seen many times people are pulling nice dps but they dont have proper talent... rotation... or glyphs with all them there will be a good bit of dps added on, My deathknight in Deadmines HC was pulling 6k dps and i was like wtf cos everyone else was around 9-11k dps... Then thats when i realised.. i didnt have 1 glyph active.... i was using Death Coil and Festuring Strike in my frost rotation, and i didnt havre a proper spec.... then i got all that glyphed up got a proper spec rotation then i returned to DM HC.... and it was insane... went from 6-8k dps to 12-15k dps and i was BUZZED.... apart from my life story lol , ur dps is fine ... Hope This Helps