DK tanking OP as hell

[Nyanmaru]

Enjoy? What's there to enjoy? There's close to no info what numbers we are looking at...
The way you presented them here renders them utterly useless.

[Deleted]

Original thread: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1204770768

[Nyanmaru]

That's a very shallow calculation.

Bone Shield is missing completely. Over 60s with a 2.4 swing timer you'd be attacked 25 times. Adding the 33.88% avoidance this would be an average of 16.5275 now bone shield would reduce 3 of these hits by 20% so the overall damage would have been reduced by 3.63%.
Same goes for glyphed Vampiric Blood (6.6% reduction to healing required and 20% buff to RT heal).

The whole comparison is an impressive feat, but I would say it's lacking some things. But it shows how close everyone is over all (except turtledins).
The final change blizzard needs to do i make threat matter so a paladin can't got for no seal damage + max self heal or nerfing WoG/GBTL for prot so they are in line with the other tanks.

Nevertheless the numbers show some things: Warriors got the short end. DKs are right in the middle. All tanks are pretty close. Turtledins are OP.

But what's most valuable for this thread: It shows DKs are not "OP as hell" like almost everyone in here already said.


(humorous edit: don't c/p your post when you are at work using macros to close tickets, someone just got this whole post instead of a 'alarm cleared, unit is working in normal parameters')

[JabJack]

i find survivability alittle lower than the current other tank in my guild ( warrior ) but my tps almost triples his. I'm not sure why but dKs so the most tps i'v seen from any tank. i'd say with good re procs i'd be around 50-60k tps while warrior at 20-30, I personally think dks are a little more gear dependent then other tanks at low level( gear ) since mastery and all

[Tripping]

DKs Take alot more damage, i found them harder to heal.
Warriors lack AoE aggro if mobs are all over the place
Pallys struggle with constant AoE packs (Sometimes)
Druids suck balls.

Each class has its weakness

[Alineara]

well i healed a dk tank in a HC at 85 he was about full 277 gear whit a few items on 346 and wenn we died due a fuck up from a dps he solo tanked the drake boss in vortex pin .. from 60% so yea there OP last boss i did not even had to heal him at all

[Thrive Pandorum]

I literally wanted to stab my eye's out after reading this. Just a garbage post.

[Ikkatsu]

(humorous edit: don't c/p your post when you are at work using macros to close tickets, someone just got this whole post instead of a 'alarm cleared, unit is working in normal parameters')

lul, i nearly did that last week... would've most likely got myself fired ;_;

[Deleted]

have to aggree with this, it must be, just because I tanked my first ever instance the other day at level 83, the vortex pinnacle.....now I know this isnt a heroic but its high level content and theres no way a rookie tank whos never done the role before should be able to get through as easily as I did.......didnt have threat issues, didnt have any trouble with hp etc I was quite suprised, I expected to get smashed lol I wasnt even wearing tank gear as im normally a frost spec duelwield dps dk. I had a decent 2 hander to equip but the rest of my stuff is dps gear, strength/stam etc no dodge/parry rating stuff etc

[nnelson54]

I run as a Prot warrior and honestly I have no complaints and I sure as heck don't feel gimpy. Case in point; was doing Altarius in VP at 23% I was the only one left standing (healers and DPS died to tornados/breaths ...lol PuGs) Between cooldown rotations and Impending Victory spam I was able to down Altarius. 23% on a heroic boss soloed by a prot warrior...nah we're not gimpy.

I have an 85 Bear tank, Blood DK tank, Prot Paladin and Prot Warrior. The Warrior is my baby. He is the very first character I created on the very first day of release(actually further back as I created a Tauren Warrior with the same name in beta and played it all through the beta, but) and aside from a short stint in Ulduar/TotC where I played my Elemental Shaman because my guild was without one he has been my main for over six years now. And it hurts me on the inside to say that Warriors are in fact gimpy as hell compared to everyone else.

[Deleted]

If Warriors are as gimpy as you claim they are then no top Guild has any reason to keep using a Protection Warrior. Yet I continue to see Kungen in Kill-Shots. Going to try and convince me that Top Guilds are gimping themselves too?

[nnelson54]

If Warriors are as gimpy as you claim they are then no top Guild has any reason to keep using a Protection Warrior. Yet I continue to see Kungen in Kill-Shots. Going to try and convince me that Top Guilds are gimping themselves too?

Kungen was still tanking when Death Knights were, without argument, ridiculous in Ulduar. Most Top Guilds aren't going to replace a long standing guild main tank(especially one who is kind of the guildleader) for a flavor of the month class at the drop of a hat.

---------- Post added 2010-12-20 at 11:53 AM ----------

Anyway, things will be balanced out soon enough. Blizzard is usually pretty good at keeping tanks balanced, minus a misstep here and there.

I still enjoy playing my Warrior and I still tank randoms on him, but my Holy Paladin friend that I queue with spends half the instances teasing me with tells of, "CAN YOU PLEASE BRING YOUR DEATH KNIGHT(/Paladin/Druid) NEXT TIME JESUS FUCK"

Edit: And the main thing that is causing the seperation between Warriors and the rest of the classes is their lack of self healing. Death Strike and Word of Glory are just insanely helpful with current gear and content. Druids don't have much in that department either, but their generally higher avoidance/armor makes up for it.

[Gallahadd]

Gotta agree with the general opinion, I've got a pally tank and a DK tank, and I've gotta say although the DK's self healing is INSANE, it's by no means OP. By the same token Pally self healing if you go Turtle is crazy good, but a) scales badly and b) requires the sacrfice of ALOT of tps, so once we see Dps starting to catch up in threat output later on in the expansion (it's going to happen, we all know it will, wont be as bad as it was in WLK, but it will happen) or if we ever see a threat sensitive fight that healing will do WAY down.

[Pickwickman]

you saying that one tank class is better than the other is a pile of bull mate. Sorry, but you dont have qualified parses and no scientific proof that backs up your argument. While I do agree that there are differences in the tanks, I blame the fact that the tanks aren't homogenized. And I like that. I have all taking classes and have tanked with them from the moment they were available, and the difference you experience with the different classes is due to the expertise of the player behind the character, not the class in itself.

Case in point, even hardcore raiding guilds still use warrior and druid tanks. Look at ensidia and paragon. The player's skill is the biggest contributor to the effectivity of the class.

Edit: writing with a phone is bad4spellingz mmkay.

[Fojos]

People who insanely outgear a level 81 instance have no trouble doing it. News at 11!

And even then, Death Knights aren't overpowered. They're perfectly in line with Bears and Prot Paladins. It just so happens that Warriors are gimpy as hell right now compared to the other three tanking choices. Although knowing Blizzard they'll just nerf everyone else's survivability.

In what way are warriors gimpy? Paladins and Death Knights are out of line. The issue is that threat is so easy to hold, which means you can both spend it on tons of self-healing, which helps a lot when mana is an issue for healers.

Edit: And the main thing that is causing the seperation between Warriors and the rest of the classes is their lack of self healing. Death Strike and Word of Glory are just insanely helpful with current gear and content. Druids don't have much in that department either, but their generally higher avoidance/armor makes up for it.

Druids have lower armor than warriors and paladins, stop this myth.

[Deleted]

Their self healing abilities are extremely ridiculous atm. We had one tanking High Priestess Azil on Heroic. We were approaching the 20% mark when suddenly I, the healer, was smashed with a boulder. I called wipe to the rest of the grp unaware of his self heals. His hp started to fall until it reached 6% and from there on he started to regain and maintained his hp at 30% for the rest of the fight. We were sorta thrilled but also disgusted at how OP his survivability was. Blizzard seriously has to nerf their healing abilities; its just plain wrong seeing that his self heals heal more than my divine lights in 346 item lvl.

[Volitar]

I'm not sure about 85 but i seem to word of glory myself instead of using shield bash while maintaining good threat and doing redoc selfhealing

[xeroxide]

Their self healing abilities are extremely ridiculous atm. We had one tanking High Priestess Azil on Heroic. We were approaching the 20% mark when suddenly I, the healer, was smashed with a boulder. I called wipe to the rest of the grp unaware of his self heals. His hp started to fall until it reached 6% and from there on he started to regain and maintained his hp at 30% for the rest of the fight. We were sorta thrilled but also disgusted at how OP his survivability was. Blizzard seriously has to nerf their healing abilities; its just plain wrong seeing that his self heals heal more than my divine lights in 346 item lvl.

u do realize it's the fight that makes it possible?
the waves of adds, kiting through the voids, deathstriking the stray adds, waiting for the boss, popping army, cycling all cooldowns.
VERY possible.

i don't understand this sort of QQ, i've tanked on pally/war/dk and they're all fine imo.
this sort of thing will become trivial when you start raids and realize how close all the tanks actually are. last thing we need is a nerf because we can flex muscle in 5 mans but then get slaughtered in raids. I remember the time when the general consensus was we couldn't tank Adds in ToGC.

we have less armor, no block and we have our self heals to make up for it.

last thing we need is a nerf because some healer who is obviously suffering a concussion due to rocks thrown by Azil... thinks we do.
sorry but reading crap like this makes me mad.

[Alianthos]

DK sure seem to have very good self healing capabilities, but that's what they are about. I, myself, as a Warrior tank, managed to survive through this same boss you speak about, but from 40%. Just chained my CD's + Enraged regen, trinkets and a bit of kiting with Heroic leap / intervening in the distance.

This thread is sooooo typical. "Tank 1 > Tank 2 because.." "LOL U MAD TANK 3 > TANK 2 BRO"...

Guys. After 6 years of wow, you didnt get it YET ? Its the player, not the class. Most tanks are successfull, and are invited to raid because they are GOOD. They can use their CDs when necessary, they know encounters, they know how to handle adds. Every tanking class is represented in #10 guilds. You have many good Warriors, Kungen, Xav to name some. Very good bears, Sejta, Aryun. Very good paladins, as Lazeil. Also good DK's, obviously.

Tanks are fine, and bad tanks come from bad players, not from bad class balancing. Get over it.

[Cursedfate]

That's a very shallow calculation.

Bone Shield is missing completely. Over 60s with a 2.4 swing timer you'd be attacked 25 times. Adding the 33.88% avoidance this would be an average of 16.5275 now bone shield would reduce 3 of these hits by 20% so the overall damage would have been reduced by 3.63%.
Same goes for glyphed Vampiric Blood (6.6% reduction to healing required and 20% buff to RT heal).

The whole comparison is an impressive feat, but I would say it's lacking some things. But it shows how close everyone is over all (except turtledins).
The final change blizzard needs to do i make threat matter so a paladin can't got for no seal damage + max self heal or nerfing WoG/GBTL for prot so they are in line with the other tanks.

Nevertheless the numbers show some things: Warriors got the short end. DKs are right in the middle. All tanks are pretty close. Turtledins are OP.

But what's most valuable for this thread: It shows DKs are not "OP as hell" like almost everyone in here already said.


(humorous edit: don't c/p your post when you are at work using macros to close tickets, someone just got this whole post instead of a 'alarm cleared, unit is working in normal parameters')

do you really think a pala would be able to keep the aggro specced divinity, using seal of insight and spamming wog? lol that's hilarious