[TV] Doctor Who

[Grummgug]

Very much this, he should not be allowed to be serious doctor. He just can't seem to do it

I think Matt Smith works best with kids. His scenes with young Kazran in "A Christmas Carol" were his best work. Young Kazran should have been his companion. Smith is very much like Troughton. Troughton was at his best with Jamie McCrimmon. Frazier played that role as if he was just a kid. Zoe was basically just a kid too.

Eleven needs his version of McCrimmon, imo.

[Kelimbror]

Could have been his fall through time but, yes, it didn't play out as I expected. The Silence went to all the trouble to create River Song and then she misses Trenzalore anyway because she's dead?

1) Is she dead? I think they left that open ended on purpose.

2) She was brainwashed to kill the Doctor at the lake in an old episode...not to be present at Trenzalore.


Though this brings me to something I don't think we are questioning yet: River's grave. How was it there on Trenzalore, how did she know about it, etc? It may be one of those things that are never explained, but clearly River can't be gone from the Doctor's timeline. Whether she is somehow brought back to life and does that bit of mojo herself or if the Doctor rigs it up and tells her about it, there's a complication that dictates she still has a life somewhere.

While it could have been a much older Doctor going back in time and telling her about this stuff, that would be a kinda random thing. My gut tells me that in this case, 'spoilers' means a lot more than we think...though it may be the end of her character in the show.

[Anjerith]

I think Matt Smith works best with kids. His scenes with young Kazran in "A Christmas Carol" were his best work. Young Kazran should have been his companion. Smith is very much like Troughton. Troughton was at his best with Jamie McCrimmon. Frazier played that role as if he was just a kid. Zoe was basically just a kid too.

Eleven needs his version of McCrimmon, imo.

Frazier Hines CHANNELS Troughton when he does BigFinish audios, if you haven't ever heard him do one I cannot even say anything to encourage you to do so as quickly as possible.

The one thing that would throw a monkey into the gears of a new Jamie/Doctor companion is that Jamie came on board as a primitive and Learned a ton of stuff during his travels. Thanks to the way they approach kids in the modern show, we would not get that degree of character evolution.

[Kelimbror]

Thanks to the way they approach kids in the modern show, we would not get that degree of character evolution.

Well when a stuck up brat can go to space and practically declare herself Queen of the Universe after causing all sorts of problems for other people, naturally we aren't going to see any kind of maturation in non adult characters on TV. It's sad.

[Keile]

Just a thought I had on the whole 13 regeneration thing:

Recall that River Song used up her remaining regenerations (which I estimate at a solid 9 or 10 based on the fact we only saw her in 3 or 4 different forms) to save his life. Perhaps due to this he now has these regenerations to use himself thus extending his maximum.

As someone said earlier: Moffat doesn't do stuff like this and then just forget about it.\

The ending of the finale was absolutely fantastic.

Also, the title for the episode was PERFECT.

So many people were thrown off from the actual meaning of the title and his name itself.

Utterly fantastic.

Actually it was fairly close to what a friend and I speculated. We guessed correctly that his name was the password to unlocking something, though we were speculating that it would unlock the timelock around Gallefrey. So we were half right, it WAS a key to unlocking something at least.

[Deleted]

Good point Kittyvicious - I hadn't considered why she'd have a grave there.

I read some speculation a while back that Alex Kingston had some "aging" makeup on in The Angels Take Manhattan and some speculated that she was post-Library. Moffat is definitely far too in love with her to get rid just yet (yay).

[Arrowstormen]

Actually it was fairly close to what a friend and I speculated. We guessed correctly that his name was the password to unlocking something, though we were speculating that it would unlock the timelock around Gallefrey. So we were half right, it WAS a key to unlocking something at least.

That wasn't really why it was called the Name of the Doctor. That was just the reason the "Doctor Who" question is part of the prophecy. The name of the doctor was related to John Hurt, and how what he did wasn't "in the name of the doctor", making John Hurt the Doctor's greatest secret, when the Doctor betrayed his name/promise.

[Arlee]

Except there'd be no need for her to say 'spoilers' since he immediately and confidently goes to get her. Sleep on that one

Could have just been her teasing him, because she does that a lot

Or the great intelligence already viewed JH as a massive failure that couldn't be hurt anymore, and thus never went there which never required a Clara to assist. Or he was the doctor during the time war which is timelocked.

I think this is probably correct. I mean, he wanted to ruin everything good the Doctor had ever done. While that was certainly the correct course of action, it wasn't a good thing.

1) Though this brings me to something I don't think we are questioning yet: River's grave. How was it there on Trenzalore, how did she know about it, etc? It may be one of those things that are never explained, but clearly River can't be gone from the Doctor's timeline. Whether she is somehow brought back to life and does that bit of mojo herself or if the Doctor rigs it up and tells her about it, there's a complication that dictates she still has a life somewhere.

As far as we know the doctor hasn't given her a sonic screwdriver or told her his real name yet. All that could happen at a later point for him after all this stuff. Something will probably happen to make him realize all of this needed to happen the way it did, and he'll tell her about it (which we may never get to see).

[apepi]

Could have just been her teasing him, because she does that a lot



I think this is probably correct. I mean, he wanted to ruin everything good the Doctor had ever done. While that was certainly the correct course of action, it wasn't a good thing.



As far as we know the doctor hasn't given her a sonic screwdriver or told her his real name yet. All that could happen at a later point for him after all this stuff. Something will probably happen to make him realize all of this needed to happen the way it did, and he'll tell her about it (which we may never get to see).

He gave her the screw driver on the Night in Darillium, where he took her out, supposedly the day before she died.

[Arlee]

He gave her the screw driver on the Night in Darillium, where he took her out, supposedly the day before she died.

I know. I am saying for him that hasn't happened yet.

[apepi]

I know. I am saying for him that hasn't happened yet.

Depends...Some could say it has already happened:}. You know, it is all timey wimy....

[Kelimbror]

I know. I am saying for him that hasn't happened yet.

That's correct. It also makes me wonder what events lead up to her being with the team that goes to the Library in the first place. That part of her life clearly was rooted in some fixed time, since she was a member of a group of people. If the Doctor knows when she's going to the Library it also means he knows the events leading up to it. Could this have some relation to what will happen on Trenzalore since she has always known what it means?

To be honest, it's amazing how just 2 people's interactions with eachother can be so complicated with the presence of time travel. I'm sure I'm smart enough to think about it, but even with colored graphs I get super confused trying to analyze their exact histories and how it affects what is actually going on, their various decisions, etc.

[Dasffion]

That's correct. It also makes me wonder what events lead up to her being with the team that goes to the Library in the first place. That part of her life clearly was rooted in some fixed time, since she was a member of a group of people. If the Doctor knows when she's going to the Library it also means he knows the events leading up to it. Could this have some relation to what will happen on Trenzalore since she has always known what it means?

To be honest, it's amazing how just 2 people's interactions with eachother can be so complicated with the presence of time travel. I'm sure I'm smart enough to think about it, but even with colored graphs I get super confused trying to analyze their exact histories and how it affects what is actually going on, their various decisions, etc.

Timey wimey and all that stuff but she was temporarily released from prison to go on that mission IIRC but she was released permanently after Asylum of the Daleks since she was under arrest for killing someone who never existed. Makes you wonder if that wouldn't have changed what happened in the Library. I'm getting a headache thinking about it.

[Arlee]

Timey wimey and all that stuff but she was temporarily released from prison to go on that mission IIRC but she was released permanently after Asylum of the Daleks since she was under arrest for killing someone who never existed. Makes you wonder if that wouldn't have changed what happened in the Library. I'm getting a headache thinking about it.

Nah, she was temporarily released for the tomb one with the angels... Bizanthem? I think that's what it is called. The one with the old decrepit statues and "Angel Bob" and Amy gets the Angel in her eye. After River is Pardoned is when she becomes a professor and some time after that is when she heads to the Library.

[dahawk]

after watching the last episode at first when we saw john hurt's back was anybody thinking COME ON.....be david tennant i was wrong this got me thinking will next series be about what happend with john locker im thinking so any thoughts

[serenka]

I am sure that the cast and crew will celebrate it, but I *really* doubt the BBC will do anything major, especially so soon after the huge budget the show has received for the 50th. Might get a Confidential style special or something.

Which would be great, as Who Confidential was my favorite part of the weekend when it was still coming on. Matt and Greg wandering around the set with the Toy Dalek and humming the old theme was hilarious.


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that bit? its brilliant lol. hes like a big child.

[MatadorMedia]

I think River and the Doctor's timelines are all caught up now. The only possible exceptions we know of is whether the Doctor was younger than he is now or older when he revealed his name, and when he took her to Darillium. Both the Doctor and River Song knew that he shouldn't go to Trenzalore (it was their story arc after all) and both figured out G.I.'s cryptic message about his grave being discovered. Whether or not the Doctor decides to go on more adventures with River's younger self remains to be seen, however.

[Dasffion]

Nah, she was temporarily released for the tomb one with the angels... Bizanthem? I think that's what it is called. The one with the old decrepit statues and "Angel Bob" and Amy gets the Angel in her eye. After River is Pardoned is when she becomes a professor and some time after that is when she heads to the Library.

Oops, you're right, my bad. "The Time of Angels" and "Flesh and Stone" are the episodes you're referring to.

[Immitis]

So The Eleventh was supposed to die, and Clara saved him?

i dont know, i think they were talking abotu the big battle where he dies and the bury him in the tardis, i think if that was caused by simeon/gi that the place wouldve changed back into whatever trenzalore looked like pre huge blood soaked battle.

thats why i keep wondering, will that battle still happen? the silence said they were fighting a war with him but then why would they be trying to prevent him going to trenzalore? thats why im thinking maybe whatever happened there will lead into the 50th which will lead into how/why/what the doctor did to make all these people want to build an army and cult just to bring him down.

really the only thing this episode answered was why his name is important (although not his actual name but the name he chose) and clara. everything else just made more questions than answers

---------- Post added 2013-05-20 at 02:35 PM ----------

I am sure that the cast and crew will celebrate it, but I *really* doubt the BBC will do anything major, especially so soon after the huge budget the show has received for the 50th. Might get a Confidential style special or something.

well obviously it wouldnt be anywhere near as big but i was thinking maybe they could do a special episode in that season, maybe have a kind of two doctors special with a classic doctor like paul mcgann or something.

[Kelimbror]

thats why i keep wondering, will that battle still happen? the silence said they were fighting a war with him but then why would they be trying to prevent him going to trenzalore? thats why im thinking maybe whatever happened there will lead into the 50th which will lead into how/why/what the doctor did to make all these people want to build an army and cult just to bring him down.

Yes the battle will still happen. The planet was in the future 'after' the events of the episode. Possibly the Silence were trying to keep the Doctor from going to Trenzalore at the time of the battle, not the time we just watched. I think there is something building that may not ever see the light of day if Moffat stops writing for the show...but the show is delving into some religious mythology (again) that may be important.

A few things about 'The Question' in regards to the prophecy

-It says on the fields of Trenzalore, not on a hilltop, not in a TARDIS grave, but on the fields. IE not the time period of this episode, but the battle that is to come.

-The first question, hidden in plain sight, that must never be answered....Doctor who?: Personally, I'm starting to get a sneaking suspicion that the Doctor is God. Not Christian God, not any god, but the all and everything. What if the Doctor is the Universe incarnate? Seems like if that secret was ever revealed it would basically destroy all of reality. Also, for it to be the first question it would have to be something the first 'thing' asks. 'What am I?'

While an idirect method to reaching that answer, imagine something creating all of time and space, existing before anything else would, and having the first moment of realization....what if all of space and time was created for this being to figure out what it was...who it was?

Whether the specifics prove true, I think the question of 'what's his name' is actually a question of who is he really. What is he? I think that answer is the true nature of the name, thus why there was so much significance placed on what name he chose instead. You could really weave in discourse on predestination, identity, and the power of names into this mythos because those questions are all floating in the background.