[TV] Doctor Who

[Risale]

I just watched the episode "The Doctors Wife" in this episode Sexy (the Tardis) states that they have been running together for 700 years now we know from the first 2 episodes of that series that the doctor is 900 so this means the doctor was 200 when he stole (borrowed) the Tardis. Now I know that Time Lords age way different then humans however I am still not 100% convinced we should close the door on JH being the original body. Clara saw 11 faces yes but all of them were the doctor she watched/saved him all through his travels in time, this means too me that she should have seen the Time War as it was such an intregal part of who he is now and yet she didn't see JH's face not untill that point at the very end when she said she saw all his faces except that one. So if Clara travelled up and down the entire life of the doctor up to the point of them going to the tomb then to me that means JH is either a future incarnation which we can discard as the current doctor knows who JH is so to me that means he could be the original body and he did something in that life that was so anti-doctor that he made a promiss 1 that this original version already broke. Look I know I could be wrong but look he stole the Tardis at age 200 (William Hartnell) and he has been running ever since, thats 200 years of his life we know nothing about so we should question why is he running from what or who and I think that both of those questions are JH.

[Arrowstormen]

I just watched the episode "The Doctors Wife" in this episode Sexy (the Tardis) states that they have been running together for 700 years now we know from the first 2 episodes of that series that the doctor is 900 so this means the doctor was 200 when he stole (borrowed) the Tardis. Now I know that Time Lords age way different then humans however I am still not 100% convinced we should close the door on JH being the original body. Clara saw 11 faces yes but all of them were the doctor she watched/saved him all through his travels in time, this means too me that she should have seen the Time War as it was such an intregal part of who he is now and yet she didn't see JH's face not untill that point at the very end when she said she saw all his faces except that one. So if Clara travelled up and down the entire life of the doctor up to the point of them going to the tomb then to me that means JH is either a future incarnation which we can discard as the current doctor knows who JH is so to me that means he could be the original body and he did something in that life that was so anti-doctor that he made a promiss 1 that this original version already broke. Look I know I could be wrong but look he stole the Tardis at age 200 (William Hartnell) and he has been running ever since, thats 200 years of his life we know nothing about so we should question why is he running from what or who and I think that both of those questions are JH.

JH couldn't betray the promise before it was made. Making him the original body would be a bit odd, and what could he have done that was so terrible but still let him live on Gallifrey with his family in peace? I'm 99.98% sure that JH is 8.5, being the dude who did what he did at the Time War. It makes so much sense and casts new light on series 1-7.

Also, about the Doctor's age: http://doctorwhotv.co.uk/who-mysteri...-age-37396.htm

http://doctorwhotv.co.uk/who-mysteri...tors-42027.htm

[Gothicshark]

I think you insert John Hurt correctly, but I am confused why is David Tennant the 11th and 12th regeneration? Also just to clarify timelords get 12 regenerations, so 13 incarnations.

If you saw 'Journeys End' you should be familiar with the Meta-Crisis that event was a full regeneration, even though the 10th got to keep being himself. Yes it is thirteen incarnations, but it has to be counted by regenerations. Every Time lord gets 13 lives. The Doctor has used all of them.

Classic Doctors
1st William Hartnell (Richard Hurndall in the 20th special)
2nd Patrick Troughton
3erd Jon Pertwee
4th Tom Baker
5th Peter Davison
6th Colin Baker
7th Sylvester McCoy
8th Paul McGann (TV Movie Doctor, pre-time war)

Time War not a Doctor
9th John Hurt

Post Time War Doctors
10th life 9th Doctor Christopher Eccleston
11th life 10th Doctor David Tennant
12th life 10th Doctor David Tennant (meta-Crisis event)
13th life 11th Doctor Matt Smith

[Kelimbror]

If you saw 'Journeys End' you should be familiar with the Meta-Crisis that event was a full regeneration, even though the 10th got to keep being himself. Yes it is thirteen incarnations, but it has to be counted by regenerations. Every Time lord gets 13 lives. The Doctor has used all of them

While what you say literally happened, the fact that Moffat and the BBC refuse to call Smith any Doctor other than the number he was already means they haven't exactly accepted that theory of the regeneration as fact. While they haven't outright abandoned it, and have thrown in things from the past (like valeyard) that people thought would never see the light of day, I wouldn't bet on him being out of regenerations just yet.

As someone else pointed out, River gave all of her regenerations to heal him. Even if the Meta Crisis counted as a full regen, River's more than likely at least offset that balance if not added more cycles. Since this was Moffat's time in the show, I would expect him to go with his own ideas over someone else's as something so important to the show.

[Immitis]

I just watched the episode "The Doctors Wife" in this episode Sexy (the Tardis) states that they have been running together for 700 years now we know from the first 2 episodes of that series that the doctor is 900 so this means the doctor was 200 when he stole (borrowed) the Tardis. Now I know that Time Lords age way different then humans however I am still not 100% convinced we should close the door on JH being the original body. Clara saw 11 faces yes but all of them were the doctor she watched/saved him all through his travels in time, this means too me that she should have seen the Time War as it was such an intregal part of who he is now and yet she didn't see JH's face not untill that point at the very end when she said she saw all his faces except that one. So if Clara travelled up and down the entire life of the doctor up to the point of them going to the tomb then to me that means JH is either a future incarnation which we can discard as the current doctor knows who JH is so to me that means he could be the original body and he did something in that life that was so anti-doctor that he made a promiss 1 that this original version already broke. Look I know I could be wrong but look he stole the Tardis at age 200 (William Hartnell) and he has been running ever since, thats 200 years of his life we know nothing about so we should question why is he running from what or who and I think that both of those questions are JH.

the doctor before he lost the ponds was over 1200 years old, hes likely much older now but so far all he says is hes "over a thousand years old" whenever his age comes up

[TheTaurenOrc]

If you saw 'Journeys End' you should be familiar with the Meta-Crisis that event was a full regeneration, even though the 10th got to keep being himself. Yes it is thirteen incarnations, but it has to be counted by regenerations. Every Time lord gets 13 lives. The Doctor has used all of them.

Interesting, I took away from that episode that he used the energy in the hand to heal and prevent a full regeneration. I don't know why he felt the need to get the hand if he was going to use up a full regeneration anyhow.

[Arlee]

Interesting, I took away from that episode that he used the energy in the hand to heal and prevent a full regeneration. I don't know why he felt the need to get the hand if he was going to use up a full regeneration anyhow.

Didn't he just get the hand back because Jack was using it to track him and the Doctor didn't want that ability out there?

[Dasffion]

It is first stated in The Deadly Assassin (1976) that a Time Lord can regenerate twelve times before dying (thirteen incarnations in all). There are exceptions to this rule, however; when a renegade Time Lord known as the Master finds himself at the end of his regenerative cycle, he takes possession of the body of another person to continue living (The Keeper of Traken, 1981), although he was using the Source of Traken to bind his mind to the body. It may be that the Time Lords also have the ability to circumvent the limit – in The Five Doctors (1983) the Master is offered a new cycle of regenerations by the High Council in exchange for his help. The fact that the Master is inhabiting a non-Gallifreyan body at the time implies that it is possible to grant them to a non-Gallifreyan, albeit one inhabited by a Time Lord mind (although River Song is shown to have the ability to regenerate due to altered DNA that has similarities to Time Lord DNA, a side effect of being conceived in a TARDIS). In "The Sound of Drums" (2007) the Master is revealed to have been granted a new body by the Time Lords during the Time War with at least one regeneration possible. Non-Gallifreyans are also seen to regenerate in Underworld (1978) and Mawdryn Undead (1983), but with adverse side effects. In Mawdryn Undead these appear to be the result of mishandling stolen technology, but in Underworld they are implied to be the inevitable result of limited technology that reinvigorates, rather than transforms, the subject's appearance (in this case, the Minyans, with whom the Time Lords shared much of their technology), thereby regenerating 'the body, not the soul'.


The BBC's Series 4 FAQ[9] suggests that now the Time Lord social order has been destroyed, the Doctor may be able to circumvent the limit on regenerations; it says: "Now that his people are gone, who knows? Time Lords used to have 13 lives." In Death of the Doctor (a 2010 The Sarah Jane Adventures serial), the Eleventh Doctor responds to a question from Clyde Langer by saying he can regenerate "507" times. Early news reports, before the episode was broadcast, suggested he would say there is no limit to the number of regenerations.[10] Writer Russell T Davies explained in an interview with SFX that the line was not intended to be taken seriously and is instead a commentary. He insisted that the "thirteen lives" rule was too deeply entrenched in the viewer consciousness for his throwaway line to affect it.[11]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regener...erative_energy

As you can see there are ways around the thirteen incarnations

[Immitis]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regener...erative_energy

As you can see there are ways around the thirteen incarnations

yes we all know that there are ways around it, and yes we all know the bbc will "make something up" when it comes to it moffats already confirmed that and with how much money doctor who makes (especially with how popular it is on bbcamerica mmm all dat ad revenue) it would be crazy to say "oh well hes dead"

however that doesnt stop it from being a cool story arc, theres no reason part of the storyline cant be "oh my god im going to die i cant regenerate anymore"

[Grummgug]

What's certainly weird is that everyone already refers to "the Doctor" as killing all of the Time Lords and Daleks. They don't refer to this mysterious John Hurt character who doesn't use the name Doctor. They say the Doctor did it. That suggests whatever he did was far worse than using the Moment to create the timelock.

On the other hand, the universe's memory of the Doctor has been wiped. No-one remembers that the Doctor used the moment or created the timelock. They don't even remember him.

[ciggy]

The 2005 revamp is where i started and it has been well worth it, i did however looked up some random episodes of the old ones but thats just me ^^

any person now wanting to get into Doctor Who i reccomend starting at that point of the 2005 revamp

The old episodes are good, but you can't go wrong with starting with the revamp. They truly did a good job.

[serenka]

LETS LIST THE FIRST EPISODE OF WHO WE ALL WATCHED!

for me it was the eccleston episode dalek, the one where the rich guy has a beat up old dalek in an underground museum that rose brings back.

was hooked ever since

same here, but i didnt really start watching until silence in the library, so quite late :P before that i just watched the odd episode, never took much notice of it.

but dalek did get me interested so that if i ever saw it was on i would switch to it, but never really sat down specifically to watch it.

[kendro1200]

I wish he would stop trying to rebuild the show, i was happy the way it was >.< Who cares if the effects weren't amazing, it was a great story with interesting characters and it made you feel like you couldn't miss an episode form the season >.< the 2nd half of season 7 has been the worst for me since it's relaunch

ClaraV3.0 must be the most dullest character in existence, Strax, Aastra and Jenny are much more entertaining and interesting. We all know that the reason Clara is scattered through time is going to be something timey wimey similar to the big band/ or somthing compeltly silly like the last of the time lords, which ending doesn't really make total sense and has tons of plot holes but we go with it anyway...

Actually Clara scattering herself was more in lines with Bad Wolf. She created a paradox, she created a situation in which the Doctor was put on a path to find her and then take her to his grave so she can scatter herself and lead him to herself so she can scatter herself...etc. Clara was essentially Moffat's Bad Wolf. That is probably why the TARDIS wasn't fond of Clara, it immediately realized what she was, and was like, "Oh no, not this again. Stop exposing human girls to the infinity that is time and breaking them. I mean I already gave you one human girl that could regenerate and you broke her the first time you met her and the first time she met you. Quit it!"

[Risale]

the doctor before he lost the ponds was over 1200 years old, hes likely much older now but so far all he says is hes "over a thousand years old" whenever his age comes up

True thats correct but the point is that at the time of the doctors wife episode he was 900ish and the tardis said they had been on the run together for 700 years.
Now in the episode The Wedding of River Song in the final scene Dorian says his bit about the fields of trenzelor and about the question that musn't be answered the question he has been running from "ALL" his life Doctor who?
Yet in the final episode we get introduced to JH who Clara hasn't seen at all in he quest to save the doctor she said she only saw 11 faces, yet the doctor knows its him so he can't be a future incarnation unless it is the Valeyard (who he met before) or it is the original the one that eventually became the doctor.

God based on my posts I seem to be harping my point, sorry for that but I just feel it would also be a valid option and I do see where others are coming from in saying that JH is the Time War doctor and I am leaning to that myself also however i'm just playing a sort of devil's advocate here as I don't want to discount either option.

Mind you we could all be wrong for that matter when november comes around and that little blue box shows itself again.

[Dasffion]

yes we all know that there are ways around it, and yes we all know the bbc will "make something up" when it comes to it moffats already confirmed that and with how much money doctor who makes (especially with how popular it is on bbcamerica mmm all dat ad revenue) it would be crazy to say "oh well hes dead"

however that doesnt stop it from being a cool story arc, theres no reason part of the storyline cant be "oh my god im going to die i cant regenerate anymore"

All I've seen is people talking like he won't be able to regenerate anymore.

[Gothicshark]

While what you say literally happened, the fact that Moffat and the BBC refuse to call Smith any Doctor other than the number he was already means they haven't exactly accepted that theory of the regeneration as fact. While they haven't outright abandoned it, and have thrown in things from the past (like valeyard) that people thought would never see the light of day, I wouldn't bet on him being out of regenerations just yet.

As someone else pointed out, River gave all of her regenerations to heal him. Even if the Meta Crisis counted as a full regen, River's more than likely at least offset that balance if not added more cycles. Since this was Moffat's time in the show, I would expect him to go with his own ideas over someone else's as something so important to the show.

it is highly likely that Moffet will give the Doctor more lives, he has also made it clear he disliked the Meta Crisis. However it did happen, and he has worked around a few things done by others. By acknowledging them and then braking it. Which is something I hope to see when they are ready for a new actor. I hope however they stick with Mat Smith for a while.

[Kelimbror]

I hope however they stick with Mat Smith for a while.

Now that his movie career is taking off, I highly doubt he would stay after the 8th season. I think they will give him one more Christmas special after that and let him go on his way. Just a year of intense filming with a moppy wig would be enough to make anyone quit anyways. I will miss him whenever he goes, but I understand that there can't be one Doctor forever.

[Gothicshark]

Now that his movie career is taking off, I highly doubt he would stay after the 8th season. I think they will give him one more Christmas special after that and let him go on his way. Just a year of intense filming with a moppy wig would be enough to make anyone quit anyways. I will miss him whenever he goes, but I understand that there can't be one Doctor forever.

part of the charm of the show, seeing different people interpreting the Doctor.

[Mormolyce]

I don't think anyone counts partial or aborted regenerations or any other shenanigans as actual regenerations. Classic series ended at the 7th Doctor, then we for some foolish reason count that terrible telemovie as canon so that's the 8th, then the reboot starts at 9th (apparently it's been confirmed somewhere in canon that there were no other Doctors between McGann and Eccleston but I wasn't watching much so dunno where), which means we're up to the 11th Doctor. Room for two more actors before he starts looking like Skeletor (unless the 13th incarnation is the Skeletor form, in which case one more actor).

I dont believe the troughton to pertwee was a regeneration he was forced into in by the time lords who wanted to change his appearance so he could be exiled to earth so imo that wasnt a genuine regeneration imo but its certainly open to debate

Nah it's pretty much firmly established that this was a regeneration, just by an unusual means.

---------- Post added 2013-05-22 at 02:16 AM ----------

Look I know I could be wrong but look he stole the Tardis at age 200 (William Hartnell) and he has been running ever since, thats 200 years of his life we know nothing about so we should question why is he running from what or who and I think that both of those questions are JH.

The original series was inconsistent about his age, the Doctor claims to be fuzzy on it himself. Personally I disregard a lot of what the new series Doctors say as frankly they talk a lot of shit. I think the first on screen reference in the OS was in Patrick Troughton's era where he claims to be 450 ish. By the time of the Seventh Doctor he was like 950. So the OS incarnations survived for hundreds of years (without ageing visibly... was William Hartnell's incarnation always that old? Or does only the first incarnation age "naturally"?) between regenerations, despite often having an unbroken chain of overlapping companions. In the new series they die every few years (for dramatic purposes, no doubt).

Long article on the subject: http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Doctor's_age

P.S. The Doctor's backstory is hazy and accounts are inconsistent, but the generally accepted premise is that he stole a TARDIS so he could wander the space/time continuum as a vagabond like other renegade Time Lords. He wasn't so much running from anyone but rather escaping stilted non-interventionist Time Lord society.

[ravenshaelo]

The first doctor I can concretely remember watching on TV, was the 4th Doctor, Tom Baker. The episode had Daleks and the doctor was losing, which had me vaguely interested, but being young I forgot all about it until the reboot happened. I don't have cable, so I never watched it, but Netflix has me going through anything and everything I ever thought I might have wanted to watch but never did.