[TV] Doctor Who

[Deleted]

Paul McGann not in the 50th

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/s7/do...it-gutted.html

[Kelimbror]

Paul McGann not in the 50th

In other news, neither are tons of the other Doctors. Nice to see that he quickly made up for saying he was 'gutted' though by praising Capaldi and not burning his bridges for the future. While he will likely never be in anything who related again, it's nice to see he puts on a good face.

[SirRobin]

I was completely unimpressed by McGann. Was he in any shows besides that one movie?

[Shockeye]

He sadly was only given screen time in the terrible TV movie, but his portrayal of the Doctor in the Big Finish 8th Doctor audio series is nothing short of amazing.
http://www.bigfinish.com/ranges/rele...tor-adventures

And Kelimbror, while it's likely McGann will not be on TV as the Doctor to say he'll never be involved in anything Who-related again is pretty wrong. He is a very popular Doctor amongst fans of the "classic" series who get to experience their ongoing stories via audio, most of which are massively better than anything the rebooted show or even the original series ever produced.
McGann, both Bakers, Davison and McCoy have continued their roles in audio with brilliant productions.

[Arrowstormen]

He sadly was only given screen time in the terrible TV movie, but his portrayal of the Doctor in the Big Finish 8th Doctor audio series is nothing short of amazing.
http://www.bigfinish.com/ranges/rele...tor-adventures

And Kelimbror, while it's likely McGann will not be on TV as the Doctor to say he'll never be involved in anything Who-related again is pretty wrong. He is a very popular Doctor amongst fans of the "classic" series who get to experience their ongoing stories via audio, most of which are massively better than anything the rebooted show or even the original series ever produced.
McGann, both Bakers, Davison and McCoy have continued their roles in audio with brilliant productions.

Audio is way, WAY easier to make. Comparing it to TV is nothing short of ludicrous.

Never been a fan of audioplays.

[Kelimbror]

And Kelimbror, while it's likely McGann will not be on TV as the Doctor to say he'll never be involved in anything Who-related again is pretty wrong.

Well, one, that's just your opinion until he's in a new audio play... So I can't be 'wrong'. Two, I was referring specifically to media that people actually pay attention to. While I respect and likely enjoy the throw back to another era in radio style programming, I wouldn't be as arrogant (this is not a jab at you btw, just saying I know I don't share tastes like most people) to think that it's relevant media in this decade.

Additionally, I don't see anywhere that this is official canon and the most concrete statement I could find on it is that their canon status is 'unclear'. In any case, if I find myself with some spare time and money without a computer or TV, I will have to check these out. They might even have them at the local library. So don't take this as a dismissal of your interest as much as a statement of bits of information informing my opinion.

[Shockeye]

Audio is way, WAY easier to make. Comparing it to TV is nothing short of ludicrous.

Never been a fan of audioplays.

Your admission to not liking audio plays pretty much makes your first statements irrelevant as you have a clear bias. Performance-wise, there's no difference between the media, the actors have the same performance abilities. The audios just tend to have better scripts and better directors which means better overall performance and production quality.
Yes, audio can get away with some bigger scopes because there are no limitations of set, costume and effects budgets, but old Doctor who had those limitations and still told a lot of great stories with amazing performances.

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Well, one, that's just your opinion until he's in a new audio play... So I can't be 'wrong'.

"Dark Eyes" parts 2-4 are coming out in 2014 and 2015 and Big Finish intend to keep producing Doctor Who audios with McGann into 2016.
http://www.doctorwho.tv/whats-new/article/big-finish-s-doctor-who-audio-licence-renewed/

Two, I was referring specifically to media that people actually pay attention to. While I respect and likely enjoy the throw back to another era in radio style programming, I wouldn't be as arrogant (this is not a jab at you btw, just saying I know I don't share tastes like most people) to think that it's relevant media in this decade.

Additionally, I don't see anywhere that this is official canon and the most concrete statement I could find on it is that their canon status is 'unclear'. In any case, if I find myself with some spare time and money without a computer or TV, I will have to check these out. They might even have them at the local library. So don't take this as a dismissal of your interest as much as a statement of bits of information informing my opinion.

Doctor who canonicity is a complicated beast. With regards to the Big Finish audios, they must respect events that happened in the show, but the show does not need to respect what happens in the audios but they are largely considered as canon in so far as there is official canon.

The two Peter Cushing Doctor Who movies are not canon, yet the McGann movie is, but only selectively (ie McGann is officially the 8th Doctor, the events happened but he is not half-human like the movie said he was. The show itself has contradicted itself multiple times, so canonicity is really in the hands of who the currently in-charge person is and moreover the canon is something held more by fans.

Here's a good article on Doctor Who canonicity, written by sci-fi author Paul Cornell and co-author of the Doctor Who Discontinuity Guide.
http://www.paulcornell.com/2007/02/canonicity-in-doctor-who.html

[Kelimbror]

"Dark Eyes" parts 2-4 are coming out in 2014 and 2015 and Big Finish intend to keep producing Doctor Who audios with McGann into 2016.

Fair enough.

Doctor who canonicity is a complicated beast. With regards to the Big Finish audios, they must respect events that happened in the show, but the show does not need to respect what happens in the audios but they are largely considered as canon in so far as there is official canon.

What I read didn't consider them canon, I don't personally consider them canon as you stated the show doesn't abide by them, so that's really all that matters to me personally. I will say extended universe things are generally always welcome, because we normally can't get enough of what we love. I've never gone as far as fanfic, so I do draw the line somewhere. I'll have to give your link a read though.

[Arrowstormen]

Your admission to not liking audio plays pretty much makes your first statements irrelevant as you have a clear bias. Performance-wise, there's no difference between the media, the actors have the same performance abilities. The audios just tend to have better scripts and better directors which means better overall performance and production quality.
Yes, audio can get away with some bigger scopes because there are no limitations of set, costume and effects budgets, but old Doctor who had those limitations and still told a lot of great stories with amazing performances.

My first statement is arguing that it's a fact that audio plays are way easier to make, everybody has bias and me not liking it doesn't mean my criticism holds no weight. If that was true, then negative reviews should not be counted, only mostly positive ones with a few negative points.

Acting is overrated these days, it's true that a good performance can be amazing (The Joker from The Dark Knight and Khan from Star Trek Into Darkness being examples), but I think the problem with judging acting is that it's a middle thing between the script and the actor, and it can be hard to see who pulls the most weight of the character. And sometimes people just judge the acting based on the fact of whether or not they like the characters. But overall, acting is talked about so much these days when people review a film or give it a score, I start to wonder if people even know when something is or isn't good acting.

Back to the topic of audioplays, I still don't think it's fair to call audio-plays massively better than the TV show. They just shouldn't be compared.

[Shockeye]

What I read didn't consider them canon, I don't personally consider them canon as you stated the show doesn't abide by them, so that's really all that matters to me personally. I will say extended universe things are generally always welcome, because we normally can't get enough of what we love. I've never gone as far as fanfic, so I do draw the line somewhere. I'll have to give your link a read though.

Yeah, like I said Doctor Who canonicity is a murky area with no real established boundaries save for a couple here and there. Generally speaking, the show will not reference any expanded universe content but it could and it may have and I didn't notice as I'm not well versed on the audios and books.

You're absolutely right about never getting enough of what we love and it's great fun to fill in the gaps in continuity with expanded content, and I agree that the show which is the core item shouldn't expand to reference non-show materials, at least in any central-to-the-story way. Everybody should draw the line at fanfic! However as there are always exceptions, I really enjoyed this 10 Doctors comic:
http://comics.shipsinker.com/?id=18

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Back to the topic of audioplays, I still don't think it's fair to call audio-plays massively better than the TV show. They just shouldn't be compared.

But the strength of how convincing, entertaining, engaging and compelling a production is hinges on the quality of the acting. I don't understand how something you are being immediately presented with in a production is not the most important aspect.
Sets, costumes, lighting, music, effect are all just window dressings that embellish the acting (and writing, and directing, but a good actor can overcome bad scripts and a good director can work around low production values).

Audio plays and the tv show absolutely can be compared. And what makes the audios better is that they work successfully. If you took modern Doctor Who and stripped out the visuals, would what's left work as a production. No. But you can "watch" the old Doctor Who missing episodes that are reconstructed via the audio (all of which has survived complete and intact) and still photos and it works, it's still good if not great.

[Immitis]

the audio plays are cannon as long as nothing in the official series conflicts with it.

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Back to the topic of audioplays, I still don't think it's fair to call audio-plays massively better than the TV show. They just shouldn't be compared.

idk. to make a good audio play is alot harder than making a good show.

a show has special effects and costumes and cool gizmos that can distract you while an audioplay depends solely on the quality of the acting and writing. a somewhat okay script can be turned into a good show if you add in cool effects, cant do that with audio plays.

personally i dont think one is better than the other except in certain spots.

personally i think the 6th doctor wasnt all that good in the series because the people running the show then were pretty much trying to run it into the ground while in the audio plays you really get to see the 6th doctor shine when he isnt being held down by a bad script. they also have the added bonus of being able to be made regardless of time passed.

they just did a 50th anniversary special featuring 4 5 6 7 and 8, they just cant do that on the show without a huge budget or stupid excuses

[Kelimbror]

the audio plays are cannon as long as nothing in the official series conflicts with it.

Sorry, after reading the article everyone that has spoken about this is just wrong. Shock was wrong, I was wrong, you are wrong.

There was never and now cannot be any authority to rule on matters of canonicity in a tale that has allowed, or at the very least accepted, the rewriting of its own continuity. And you’re using the fact that discussions of canonicity are all about authority to try to assume an authority that you do not have

So while he throws away the notion of personal canon, I will have to use his own words (which also void his opinion on the matter) and state that we all have what we accept as accurate and that's that. We can discuss its merits, but none of us can say this or that as a definitive answer. To that end, I'll take the TV shows and nothing else as having happened. It's just easier for me and I prefer it. You are all free to love it all to whatever end you may, however.

[Arrowstormen]

But the strength of how convincing, entertaining, engaging and compelling a production is hinges on the quality of the acting. I don't understand how something you are being immediately presented with in a production is not the most important aspect.
Sets, costumes, lighting, music, effect are all just window dressings that embellish the acting (and writing, and directing, but a good actor can overcome bad scripts and a good director can work around low production values).

Audio plays and the tv show absolutely can be compared. And what makes the audios better is that they work successfully. If you took modern Doctor Who and stripped out the visuals, would what's left work as a production. No. But you can "watch" the old Doctor Who missing episodes that are reconstructed via the audio (all of which has survived complete and intact) and still photos and it works, it's still good if not great.

Acting serves one purpose: Making me believe. Which is the same job all the other stuff has, to immerse me in the story/writing. It's the art of the (motion) picture rather than the art of the word in a book. The art of the sound is a fine one too, when it comes to music, and I like a good audiobook (the Harry Potter books have an absolutely fantastic actor/reader in the danish version), but audioplays, I don't know. Never heard that many audioplays, but it sometimes strikes me as a movie only with sound, rather than it's "own thing". Each to their own I guess, it seems to me like fan service when the actors no longer looks the part, but still sounds the part. Never did get around to watch the Classic Doctor stuff.

[Immitis]

FUCK YES NO SPLIT!

NO SPLIT! NO SPLIT! NO SPLIT!

woop woop

http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/series-...2014-54632.htm

[icausewipes]

interesting note at 22:54.

[Immitis]

interesting note at 22:54.

at that part i literally got out of my chair and started jumping up and down going "DID HE JUST SAY WHAT I THINK HE SAID!?!!?! DID HE JUST SAY WHAT I THINK HE SAID!?!?!?! OH SHIT VALEYARD! SHITS GOIN DOWWWWNNNNNN"

completely serious. luckily i had the house to myself when the show came on so no one could see my fanboyness

[BloodyAngel12]

Cant wait to watch this at the cinema.

[Shockeye]

Thank you for posting that. I've been meaning to re-watch it and I liked it a lot more this time around. I believe I was much to hard on that episode and have re-evaluated my opinion about it. Smith was excellent in that one as well.

[Kelimbror]

Thank you for posting that. I've been meaning to re-watch it and I liked it a lot more this time around. I believe I was much to hard on that episode and have re-evaluated my opinion about it. Smith was excellent in that one as well.

I mean, call me a Smith fan boy if you must, but I don't understand how someone could watch this past season and not realize he was a great choice for the role. He has evolved that character tremendously over his seasons and I actually think his Doctor changed the most/was affected the most of any in the modern era. Many will disagree, but that episode was just brilliant. I expect amazing things from the 50th.

[SirRobin]

Oh Smith has grown into the role. No dispute there. I just think others have done it significantly better. Baker and Tenant being the ones that immediately come to mind.