[TV] Doctor Who

[dirk123]

"The Doctor" is a name chosen to represent the ideals of choosing others over himself, helping in any way possible, and being just. John Hurt violated those ideals when he wiped out the Time Lords - arguably, since he himself believed it was necessary for peace - and so Matt Smith has retroactively removed the title of "The Doctor" from that regeneration. John Hurt was The Doctor, but is not considered so anymore by his present day self Matt Smith. It's possible John Hurt used other names during the Time War, unsurprisingly, since The Doctor has always used multiple names to represent himself in battle.

The Doctor is not Omega. The Doctor is Theta Sigma. Neither of which are names, anyway. They are letter designations to represent Time Lords during their trials in the Gallifreyan Academy. We have known that The Doctor is represented by ΘΣ and informally called Thete for a long time now.

John Hurt is not the Valeyard. John Hurt is the Ninth Doctor. First, the Valeyard is not a regeneration. He tried to kill off The Doctor (killing a younger version of yourself would make you not exist... Valeyard is just evil thoughts and emotions that amalgamated into it's own Time Lord body). Second, and more importantly, John Hurt is wearing the Ninth Doctor's leather jacket which indicates he was from the same time period and Eccelston just kept the jacket after regenerating.

And as I said in a spoiler a bit back, if you look closely, under 9th Doctor (Eccleston) jacket is some of the 8th Doctor (Paul McGann) clothes. Which is proof that it must be Time War Doctor.

[Risale]

Changing the name means he didn't break the promise of the Doctor name, in fact that would've meant that he honored it. That is he couldn't do something under the name of Doctor as it would be a violation of a promise of the name - so he changed the name to do what he needed to do, he wasn't a doctor anymore when he did the stuff he did. So he didn't break the promise of the name Doctor. And there's no reason for MS to be pissed about it.

That is what made me think of the small posibility of JH being the original body. It makes me think that the original was much darker and more in line with the rest of Time Lord society and that due to actions taken in that life he eventually became The Doctor the one that stole the Tardis and started running away. The Doctor ran away from his people this is mentioned in various seasons going back to the beginning in the 60s. The Doctor was at 1 point in his youth best friends with the Master and they grew up together. He was also friends with The Rani and The Monk during those days. All of these became his enemies. JH says in the final episode "What I did, I did without choice in the name of piece and sanity" whatever this action was could have been the reason he started to run, the reason as to why he became The Doctor"
I agree he is wearing a leather coat which hints at Eccleston however each regeneration come with a new wardrobe also if this is indeed the Time War doctor wouldn't the 9th doctor Eccleston have changed out the coat for something else.
Also Eccleston is way darker then previous incarnations or Tennant & Smith this in part makes me think Eccleston was the Time War doctor and JH is the original.

Please feel free to spot and point out any gaping holes in my reasoning and point me out to material debunking my theory but do be so kind and but it in [ spoiler] [ /spoiler] as to not spoil things for others.

[dirk123]

That is what made me think of the small posibility of JH being the original body. It makes me think that the original was much darker and more in line with the rest of Time Lord society and that due to actions taken in that life he eventually became The Doctor the one that stole the Tardis and started running away. The Doctor ran away from his people this is mentioned in various seasons going back to the beginning in the 60s. The Doctor was at 1 point in his youth best friends with the Master and they grew up together. He was also friends with The Rani and The Monk during those days. All of these became his enemies. JH says in the final episode "What I did, I did without choice in the name of piece and sanity" whatever this action was could have been the reason he started to run, the reason as to why he became The Doctor"
I agree he is wearing a leather coat which hints at Eccleston however each regeneration come with a new wardrobe also if this is indeed the Time War doctor wouldn't the 9th doctor Eccleston have changed out the coat for something else.
Also Eccleston is way darker then previous incarnations or Tennant & Smith this in part makes me think Eccleston was the Time War doctor and JH is the original.

Please feel free to spot and point out any gaping holes in my reasoning and point me out to material debunking my theory but do be so kind and but it in [ spoiler] [ /spoiler] as to not spoil things for others.

John Hurt is the Time War Doctor. He pushed the big ass Time Lock kill Daleks/Time Lords button. Then in the episode Rose, he just regenerated. Hence he was checking his face. Eccleston's Doctor would still have some of the "darkness" John Hurt would have had but not as much. With Rose "healing" him as Tennant said in Journey's End. "The healing" and the way he loathes his John Hurt #9 self combining to not use the weapon in Bad Wolf to kill the Daleks and the humans.

As I said, he just regenerated in "Rose". If we believe the upper picture, he kept the Jacket Eccleston will be wearing, but ditched some of McGann's 8th Doctor attire.

[yetgdhfgh]

I like to think that JH is the Original Doctor and is the person that the doctor has been running away from ever since hartnell. The doctor wanted to run away from his past and maybe that IS his past. I dont think its the valeyard cause JH looked like he wasnt evil but what he did was a necessary evil but then again the doctor has done that before when he destroyed gallifrey to stop the time lords from destroying everything to save themselves so if what JH did was worst than that then he must have done something worst then killing every time lord ever

[Risale]

John Hurt is the Time War Doctor. He pushed the big ass Time Lock kill Daleks/Time Lords button. Then in the episode Rose, he just regenerated. Hence he was checking his face. Eccleston's Doctor would still have some of the "darkness" John Hurt would have had but not as much. With Rose "healing" him as Tennant said in Journey's End. "The healing" and the way he loathes his John Hurt #9 self combining to not use the weapon in Bad Wolf to kill the Daleks and the humans.

As I said, he just regenerated in "Rose". If we believe the upper picture, he kept the Jacket Eccleston will be wearing, but ditched some of McGann's 8th Doctor attire.

As far as I can remember from that episode he has already been in that body for some time, no mentioning of this being a new regeneration at all. From what I have read on the Tardis wiki it is said that the 8th doctor died during the Time War, so that means Eccleston became the 9th during that time which in turn leads me to believe that JH is the original body and not an inbetween incarnation. Again if I am dead wrong let me know and please link the relevant information so I can read it myself.

[Deleted]

As far as I can remember from that episode he has already been in that body for some time, no mentioning of this being a new regeneration at all. From what I have read on the Tardis wiki it is said that the 8th doctor died during the Time War, so that means Eccleston became the 9th during that time which in turn leads me to believe that JH is the original body and not an inbetween incarnation. Again if I am dead wrong let me know and please link the relevant information so I can read it myself.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...-spoilers.html

JH is the Doctor who fucked shit up during the Time War.

And people saying he could be the Valeyard, he's not, the Valeyard is a possible destiny for future doctor.

[Tyrannica]

oh, great a doctor who thread.

I am sorry but i have not the time to read all the 100+ pages.

I am from austria we have german tv too......in german television doctor who is non existend, except for the pay tv channels such as FOX and maybe syfy but at the moment Fox is the host for the new doctor who series with matt smith.
They showed the david trennant shows too.

Both doctors are very good, trennant got much better at the end and matt smith is new and is more alien than trennant and luckily acts as funny and confused as the scientiest in the back to the future films, but trennant was nice to watch too, good there is a special with both of them in 1 episode now, i guess its the 50 years anniversary.

If more series would have the quality and nice feel like this one the world would be a better planet. ;>

I really like that episode with the lizards under the earth, cause there is some sort of evidence(paintings in caverns) that a lizard race existed and fled into the deep of the earth, cause of the evolution of the human race.

[dirk123]

As far as I can remember from that episode he has already been in that body for some time, no mentioning of this being a new regeneration at all. From what I have read on the Tardis wiki it is said that the 8th doctor died during the Time War, so that means Eccleston became the 9th during that time which in turn leads me to believe that JH is the original body and not an inbetween incarnation. Again if I am dead wrong let me know and please link the relevant information so I can read it myself.

First of all, don't use wiki's. They can be changed by any one. The Time War is UNKNOWN. It was never stated 8 died during the war.

Go t 11min 50sec in the video. The way he talks about his face means he hasn't seen himself yet. Hence he regenerated not too long ago.

EDIT:
How can he be the first. The First we know is already an old grandpa. Which means this is the only Doctor that aged and didnt needed to regenerate because of accidents. He grows old and steals a Tardis with his granddaughter Susan. Hell, they show it as a semi-flashback in this episode.

[Kelimbror]

Sorry for the following : OH MY GOD THAT EPISODE WAS AMAZING.

Definitely gives a large case for taking this season as one large story instead of on an episodic basis. And River...the Feels. Nailed it.

Anyone who thinks Matt Smith isn't an amazing actor and fantastic Doctor after seeing this episode should probably scoop their heart out with a spoon. A spoon, because it hurts more.

[Deleted]

First of all, don't use wiki's. They can be changed by any one. The Time War is UNKNOWN. It was never stated 8 died during the war.

Go t 11min 50sec in the video. The way he talks about his face means he hasn't seen himself yet. Hence he regenerated not too long ago.

Not to mention, first scene with Eccleston he had just regenerated.

[Marmot]

First of all, don't use wiki's. They can be changed by any one. The Time War is UNKNOWN. It was never stated 8 died during the war.

Go t 11min 50sec in the video. The way he talks about his face means he hasn't seen himself yet. Hence he regenerated not too long ago.

British tv show, yet I can't watch it on youtube in the UK, cos they blocked it in the UK... makes alot of sense.

[Seribus99]

So the fragment of clara that tells one of the doctors to steal this Tardis is a timelord?

[dirk123]

So the fragment of clara that tells one of the doctors to steal this Tardis is a timelord?

Or just a Gallifreyan. As I said before, not all Gallifreyans are Time Lords.

[Seribus99]

Or just a Gallifreyan. As I said before, not all Gallifreyans are Time Lords.

guess i missed that, thanks.

[ELYPOP]

Anyone who thinks Matt Smith isn't an amazing actor and fantastic Doctor after seeing this episode should probably scoop their heart out with a spoon. A spoon, because it hurts more.

Indeedy. Both him and Clara were massively redeemed for me in the most recent episode. Loved it.

[icausewipes]

"The Doctor" is a name chosen to represent the ideals of choosing others over himself, helping in any way possible, and being just. John Hurt violated those ideals when he wiped out the Time Lords - arguably, since he himself believed it was necessary for peace - and so Matt Smith has retroactively removed the title of "The Doctor" from that regeneration. John Hurt was The Doctor, but is not considered so anymore by his present day self Matt Smith. It's possible John Hurt used other names during the Time War, unsurprisingly, since The Doctor has always used multiple names to represent himself in battle.

The Doctor is not Omega. The Doctor is Theta Sigma. Neither of which are names, anyway. They are letter designations to represent Time Lords during their trials in the Gallifreyan Academy. We have known that The Doctor is represented by ΘΣ and informally called Thete for a long time now.

John Hurt is not the Valeyard. John Hurt is the Ninth Doctor. First, the Valeyard is not a regeneration. He tried to kill off The Doctor (killing a younger version of yourself would make you not exist... Valeyard is just evil thoughts and emotions that amalgamated into it's own Time Lord body). Second, and more importantly, John Hurt is wearing the Ninth Doctor's leather jacket which indicates he was from the same time period and Eccelston just kept the jacket after regenerating.

Didnt we cover this a few pages back?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EznNXZqWFXA - spoilers

how much more proof is required that the Valeyard is the doctor?

[Deleted]

I love this thread. As a rather new Doctor Who fan since just a couple years back, this thread helped me understand some things that happened in the original series which I just couldn't find online. Thank you. :3

[Elim Garak]

Didnt we cover this a few pages back?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EznNXZqWFXA - spoilers

how much more proof is required that the Valeyard is the doctor?

So...
an amalgamation of the darker sides of doctor's nature == doctor?

[Frozenbeef]

British tv show, yet I can't watch it on youtube in the UK, cos they blocked it in the UK... makes alot of sense.

I was a bit puzzled by this..whenever i search for doctor who clips on youtube they all say blocked in the uk by bbc america -.-

[MatadorMedia]

Didnt we cover this a few pages back?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EznNXZqWFXA - spoilers

how much more proof is required that the Valeyard is the doctor?

Again, this clip very clearly states that the Valeyard is an amalgam of the Doctor's darker nature, not that he is a regeneration of the Doctor. I think the Valeyard comes FROM the Doctor, but it is not the same being (think of a clone if you like, but that's not entirely accurate either). In the clip The Master references the Valeyard (ie: the dark nature) as being known to him as the Doctor; imo this is because the Master knows the dark side of the Doctor quite well, better than anyone... the Master doesn't believe the Doctor is good in the first place, so to him the Doctor has always been dark and therefore he identifies the dark nature as being the Doctor (even though the Valeyard technically is a different being). Anyway, the Master chooses to save the real Doctor in that episode because I think he just enjoys pushing the Doctor's buttons and the Master thrives in playing with the internal conflict of good versus dark nature in the Doctor. Although I'm fine with the Valeyard actually being one of his regenerations, but I'm not sold on it yet.