I'll tell you why Holy Concentration is going to get nerfed

[TheRabidDeer]

Nah, it's up for 15 if you have the on-use trinket. In an expansion where mana is supposed to be an issue, this is overpowered.



Not priests, it's holy concentration that causes scaling issues with mana tide.
Something else would have to be put in it's place of course.

So, you think that because you got an extra 20k mana because your trinket procced during tide that the entire functionality behind holy concentration is OP?

[Deleted]

It's ridicolous that you think Priests need a nerf because for 12 sec every 3 min if you have a resto shaman in your raid, your trinket procc'd and the totem doesn't get destroyed, you get 20k spirit.
You don't even mentioned the fact that other classes get mana every 8 sec, 6 sec etc from a stat that gives them throughput.

[Kelesti]

The healing philosophy in TBC is not the same as the healing philosophy in cataclysm.
Geared healers were virtually un-oomable in TBC as well.

Not until 2.4, really.

[iLive]

seems fine imo

OT: i love your UI

What? 0.o

I don't understand.

[Siri]

Yes, that's correct, it's because of the high in combat regen that the scaling with mana tide is a problem.
With a proc it's random so it's not that bad but if you get the core of ripeness from valor points it's no longer a random thing and will happen every time mana tide is down.

Mana tide is strong enough as it is already.

[Bellabel]

Being as holy priest mana cost are very high I highly doubt HC will get any nerf. Yes getting great buffs from mana tide is awesome. However what healing class isn't it awesome for?

[Siri]

Mana balance is fine when mana tide isn't in the picture, with it holy pulls way ahead because it's that much better for holy than any other healing spec

[Kelesti]

Holy Concentration is going to get nerfed. But Mana Tide isn't the reason.

[Tavin]

Paladins for example gets also 20-22k with a trinket procc.

But yes, i do believe holy concentration will get nerfed. Our first raid (which was 1 day after release) I got oom when magmaw was at 70ish procent and i used all my cooldowns which were hymn, shadow friend, arcane torrent and trinket.

Now I forget to use my shadow fiend at most bosses cause arcane torrent and vendor trinkets are more than enough. When I pop trinket at mana tide i get up to 27k mp5 which is about 3-5k more than our paladins.

[Bellabel]

I really hope people are also taking into consideration hardmodes. Yes HC is scaling great, but hardmodes you'll need it. Currently in my gear only fight that gives me mana issues is Nefarian normal. His 2nd phase and the start of p3 is a mana hog. Once he is attempted on hardmode I doubt many people will say HC needs nerfage.

[Airia]

What about priests that don't have a shaman in their group?

[Siri]

With mana tides I don't even have problems on nefarian, in any phase of the fight.

What about priests that don't have a shaman in their group?

Changing it would of course include some form of compensation elsewhere, something that doesn't result in ridiculous scaling.

[Siri]

and herin lies the problem. our mana sucks without mana tide

No, it really doesn't, it's no worse than for anyone else

[Siri]

Yes please, I would love to see these numbers you have. I'll start out with some of my own. Base mana for each healing class at level 85:
Priest = 20590, Druid = 18635, Paladin = 23422, Shaman = 23430

Mana cost of the three basic spells (because these are the ones you can reasonably compare):
nourish 10% base
Healing touch 30% base
Regrowth 35% base

Holy Light 9% base
Divine Light 30% base
Flash of Light 27% base

Healing Wave 9% base
Greater HW 30% base
Healing Surge 27% base

Heal 9% base
Greater Heal 27% base
Flash Heal 28% base

The difference in how much each spell heals is, in general, not very big.
(I'm also aware of the flaws of this comparison, seeing as it doesn't factor in things like talents and a lot class unique tools are missing)
I'd be more interested to see what kind of progress you actually have, so I can see what kind of experience you're talking from.

Edit: Also you're wrong about the "if we had mana we'd stack haste, not mastery" part too, scroll down to hpriest stat weight here:
http://elitistjerks.com/f77/t110245-...st_compendium/
check the "burst" column.

[DomBomb1]

Mana Tide + Trinket proc/use

Rapture > HC, so no HC will not be nerfed. Good synergy with other classes + communication + timing is skill - why would they nerf skilled players?

[Siri]

First off clean up your tables or link the source because they look like complete ass right now, virtually unreadable.
Furthermore, renew is not your raid healing spell, that's covered by other spells so the haste thresholds for renew are useless most of the time.
Now, even if they weren't useless the haste thresholds do not actually increase HPS more than the reduced amount of time between ticks, the thresholds have a bigger effect on HPM than HPS.

we'll start with their default aoe is much stronger, even as ele, move into LAWL earth shield, and wtf do we have renew?

It depends on what functionality of ES it is you're looking for. Is it the automatic heal when taking damage? PoM, check.
Also, Healing Rain is not stronger than PoH is unless you're talking specific scenarios where only people from different groups take damage and they're all standing conveniently within the radius of HR.

really, you bitching about holy concentration = just not a viable thing in endgame raiding, as we probably won't have you there anyway.

I'm sort of hoping I actually misunderstand you here, you're bitching about me not being in end-game raiding after me saying I'd be more interested in seeing your experience than your numbers and you not providing any kind of proof of raid progress? (while mine is easily accessible in my signature)

[Siri]

It's so easy to make claims when you have no intentions to back them up, isn't it?
Second, I'm the one thinking the mana regen goes out of control with mana tide and trinkets, that it could use a nerf.
What that means is that I think we're too good now, you think we're too weak, who is likely to be the person being outperformed?

[Deleted]

Holy Priest regen goes insanely high while using Mana Tide, All other healers regen goes insanely high while using Mana Tide.

While I agree Holy Concentration may be a little bit too high atm, one screenshot proving the usefulness of Mana Tide is completely irrelevant.

[Siri]

hey I didn't start the topic about you being overpowered in situtions in some, and underpowered in others.

YOU DID.

Are you high? I never said we were underpowered.
Quite frankly, I won't even bother replying to you any more, if you actually do attempt to show any progress of yours it's not even going to be your character. You simply have virtually no idea what you're talking about.

[TheRabidDeer]

I know that for right now, holy concentration might be quite strong... but what about down the line when fights demand more throughput? Remember that spirit is a secondary stat like mastery/haste/crit, this means that in the future we may have to sacrifice a lot of our spirit items or reforge spirit to get more oomph behind our heals. I mean, I remember shamans in TBC during BT had zero mana issues. But, in sunwell they had to start stacking haste like crazy and suddenly a lot of shamans were feeling a strain on their mana. This same thing could easily happen in cata as well.