Stop cheating Item level.

[Paulosio]

So all the "gear check" fights were a lie? lol, no. Yes, skill plays a big role, but you can't always ignore gear. Gear also gives you room for error, which even top 100 players have on occasion. Just because it could be done with less if performed perfectly doesn't mean you should use that as an excuse to not get gear first. It's actually easier to grind rep in normals anyway, they tend to go faster...

Ofc this applies more for heals/tanks than it does for dps.

There are no gear check fights in heroics. Gear check fights in raids were challenging to well geared players with decent skills. A good player with bad gear is better than a bad player with good gear in heroics (unless maybe it's the tank).

[Mrzoso]

There are no gear check fights in heroics. Gear check fights in raids were challenging to well geared players with decent skills. A good player with bad gear is better than a bad player with good gear in heroics (unless maybe it's the tank).

But a good player in bad gear is still not as good as a good player in good gear.

your still saying a good player in bad gear is a strain either way.

[Paulosio]

Guild or not, you should be ensuring you are pulling your weight, and that includes ensuring you are geared for the content.

Being well enough geared for the content requires far less gear than the dungeon finder dictates if you are a decent player. I remember at the end of wotlk when my guild rerolled horde alts to start raiding on that we cleared the ICC 5 man heroics including HOR with some greens, mostly blues and only 2-4 triumph items each. No wipes and no problems.

I'd have no problems taking a guildy in full greens through a heroic (as long as it wasn't the tank) and it wouldn't cause any problems other than making the run take about 5 mins extra.

[Mrzoso]

I also would like to point out that most people are thinking along the lines of ICC. ya, you could be an awesome player and undergeared.....WITH A 30% BUFF

So i tell you what, till the heroics get a 30% buff, or we hit a new tier.......

Wear the item req gear (or at least 325+)

---------- Post added 2011-01-01 at 10:38 PM ----------

Being well enough geared for the content requires far less gear than the dungeon finder dictates if you are a decent player. I remember at the end of wotlk when my guild rerolled horde alts to start raiding on that we cleared the ICC 5 man heroics including HOR with some greens, mostly blues and only 2-4 triumph items each. No wipes and no problems.

I'd have no problems taking a guildy in full greens through a heroic (as long as it wasn't the tank) and it wouldn't cause any problems other than making the run take about 5 mins extra.

you were in a guild. as stated before......this is for pugs.
I have yet to hear any guilds bitching about heroics, its pugs.

[b1ad3]

I've actually have had DPS needing on tanking items a lot recently. When confronted the only explanation they had was that they were trying to get their ilevel up to do higher heroics.

What kind of etiquette is that? Intentionally hinder another persons progress that would actually put the item to great use in order to cheat the ilevel requirement and go on to further slow the progress of the groups he/she groups with in the future.

[Paulosio]

But a good player in bad gear is still not as good as a good player in good gear.

your still saying a good player in bad gear is a strain either way.

Yes but a lot of the players in the dungeon ques aren't good players.... the good player in bad gear is certainly no worse than the average player in the dungeon finder.

I'd sooner take a badly geared player who moves out of stuff, doesn't die and can interrupt and cc over a worse player in good gear who maybe does a few hundred extra dps (maybe but often still less than the badly geared good player) more but fails at everything else.

A good player in bad gear is still less of a strain on a group than a bad player in good gear.... He takes less damage, causes the rest of the group to take less damage via interrupts and ccing properly and probably does at least the same damage as the average player in the dungeon que regardless of the gear disadvantage.

[Mrzoso]

Yes but a lot of the players in the dungeon ques aren't good players.... the good player in bad gear is certainly no worse than the average player in the dungeon finder.

I'd sooner take a badly geared player who moves out of stuff, doesn't die and can interrupt and cc over a worse player in good gear who maybe does a few hundred dps (maybe but often still less than the badly geared good player) more but fails at everything else.

A good player in bad gear is still less of a strain on a group than a bad player in good gear.... He takes less damage, causes the rest of the group to take less damage via interrupts and ccing properly and probably does at least the same damage as the average player in the dungeon que regardless of the gear disadvantage.

But this could all be avoided by just gearing correctly (through regs and rep gear)

I honestly dont exactly see what your trying to say....other than its okay for good players to do what they want.

[Paulosio]

I also would like to point out that most people are thinking along the lines of ICC. ya, you could be an awesome player and undergeared.....WITH A 30% BUFF

So i tell you what, till the heroics get a 30% buff, or we hit a new tier.......

Wear the item req gear (or at least 325+)

---------- Post added 2011-01-01 at 10:38 PM ----------



you were in a guild. as stated before......this is for pugs.
I have yet to hear any guilds bitching about heroics, its pugs.

Indeed... in a guild and playing with good players. Nobody was being carried because all had equally bad gear. The point is good players are just as effective as bad players regardless of their gear so the point about cheating gearscore and ruining pugs is irrelevant.

On the rare occasions I have done pug Cataclysm heroics the other dps have been pulling around 7k dps on bosses.... I was doing over 15k. I have better gear but not that much better. I could easily have joined the heroic and done more dps than these pug people with a mix of blue and green quest rewards and just a few normal items.

Gear isn't always a good guide to how effective the player will be. Comment on individuals after you've given them a chance to see what they can do... don't comment at the start of the dungeon based on their gear before you even start. I've been faced with this dumb attitude before when I joined wotlk heroics with my 2.7k gearscore mage. I still ended up doing equal / more dps than all the 4-4.5k pugs I met.

[Vlarkin]

i agree with this 100% i have seen it so many times.

[Tastyfish]

My pvp gear in my bag boosts my AIL is that cheating? lol

[Paulosio]

But this could all be avoided by just gearing correctly (through regs and rep gear)

I honestly dont exactly see what your trying to say....other than its okay for good players to do what they want.

---------- Post added 2011-01-01 at 10:42 PM ----------

In a way I am saying that good players should be able to do what they want... because it doesn't harm the groups they join. I never judge a player at the start of a dungeon without seeing what they can do and tbh I don't care if it doesn't noticably cause the group to fail.

I don't care if people use pvp gear or some other means to cheat the dungeon finder if they do an ok job once they are in. If they do this and then do a terrible job and we failed because of it... then ye it's annoying and i'd kick them.

[slowside]

iScore - "Adds average iLevel to mouse over tooltip, calculated using currently equipped gear" Can't cheat that with Offspec gear in your bag.

[Mrzoso]

Right, good players doing good things is always good. i agree.

However can you say this.......Item level is not what you WILL do. its what you CAN do.

It shows me offhand if the person is going to be carried (even a little)

---------- Post added 2011-01-01 at 10:57 PM ----------

iScore - "Adds average iLevel to mouse over tooltip, calculated using currently equipped gear" Can't cheat that with Offspec gear in your bag.

tyvm. ill be adding that to a list of addons to pass on to people.

So far on 4/5 guild runs.....if we see the 5th wearing trash, we're kicking you.

[Ghul]

you dont need too much of gear for heroics anyways. 8% hit is kinda the most important thing for every class, yes casters also only need about 8% for mobs at or below lvl 87, so plenty for heroics there.

so its pretty easy to pull good dps in heroics even tho wearing pvparmor, because most of the stats on pvearmor only kicks in when facing the big bad raidbosses!

[TGS]

There are no gear check fights in heroics. Gear check fights in raids were challenging to well geared players with decent skills. A good player with bad gear is better than a bad player with good gear in heroics (unless maybe it's the tank).

Heroic Deadmines. Admiral Ripsnarl. No gear checks eh? I could probably list a few more if I could be bothered but I won't. But yes there are plenty of gear checks. Not even just in heroics actually. There are a few in normals as well which can be sort of ignored if you have the skill but if you lack skill and gear it will lead to wipes. I was chain healing and tanking heroic DM for a specific item off the last boss and I encountered so many dps that simply could not pull the DPS necessary to complete that fight. It requires around 5-7k minimum dps. Yes people can be carried through content but really only so far.

Now I'll say comfortably I padded my ilvl... you know why? I was stuck at 328 so I padded it to get past that with an item I never used or intended to use off AH. It got me in and I started blowing heroics away.

The biggest issue isn't so much people padding their ilvl as it is people being cocky and trying to bite off more than they can chew with the ilvl they have. For example a fairly good 352 pally tank in heroic stonecore yesterday would mark CC's... then bum rush into the group dropping his aoe... breaking a couple of the CC's and ending up with about 3-4 mobs beating on him. Now I was healing and while I had little issues with keeping him alive... to do so I had to have hots rolling and spamming healing touch on him. The thing that got us wiped was that he wasn't the only one taking damage. So the moment I stopping healing him to heal one of the dps that was getting really low he got smashed and GG. He was a geared tank who simply got cocky and thought he could tank the damage that was coming at him. And he could have if he was the only one taking damage but sadly in cata that is rarely the case.

P.S. I really really really really wish people would stop trying to apply everything to "raids". When you're talking about heroics you don't need to mention raids or even talk about things in the context of raids. Yes heroics are harder but they are not raids. The whole concept of a raid vs heroic vs normal is the step up in both difficulty and level.

[grifty]

Every time I random into a failing heroic group, at least two group members are wearing greens and ungemmed and unenchanted blues. If you're socketed 333/346 is not gemmed and enchanted, it might as well be a green.

With the right group makeup when it comes to CC and buffs, you're probably clearing the heroics in that gear, but keep in mind that you're making things harder on your healer and you're probably getting carried.

[Lilcheeks]

iScore - "Adds average iLevel to mouse over tooltip, calculated using currently equipped gear" Can't cheat that with Offspec gear in your bag.

From the makers of gearscore, to enrage the community and give me hours and hours of laughter!

[Madwolf]

Gearscore doesn't accurately reflect player skill. Give me the guy with the 320 actual gear score who knows how to play his class over the guy with 346 gear score that can't play his class a lick.

[Caenymh]

Most of the time, I'm in the camp of gear =/= skill. However, at this point in Cataclysm, if you're cheating the system to get into heroics and your undergeared ass is underperforming, you can bet that I'll be the first to votekick you. That being said, I'm willing to give everyone a chance, including the tank that walked into our heroic in half ICC gear. But you only get one shot to make a good first impression.

[Void]

Yeah and when you see someone that has cheated his way into a heroic,you will know that he's a good player for sure.In randoms,most of the "green-geared" people i've seen suck bigtime(exept one retribtion paladin i've met).So to be honest,if i have to choose between a geared bad player and an undergeared bad player,i'd choose the first one,as at least he will do twice as much damage before dying from fire.

Also,is getting the 329 iLvl reqirement hard?Not at all,do some quests in Uldum/TH,do 2-3 normals and from the quest/dngeon/rep gear you should meet the reqirement like one day(or even less) after hitting 85.By cheating your way into heroics,you arent making a good impression at all