shdw stat priorty

[rubadub]

hit > int > haste > crit > mastery

any arguments?
also, what meta gem is everyone using?

because of the requirements of the crit + 3% crit dmg increase (more blues than reds), I decided that it's in my best interested to use the +54int +2% mana gem.

currently pulling ~14k dps on a standstill boss fight

armory link:
us.battle.net/wow/en/character/spirestone/drakos/simple

[New]

While there is some debate on whether to be hit capped or not, I think getting the hit cap is a good idea. So, you are correct in your stat weight assumptions. The meta choice is fine for now. However, when they change the Chaotic in a future patch, it will easily become your best option.

[Nigeldruid]

You really should weight int over hit, regardless of cap in my eyes, unless you don't notice missing a spell ever. Going hit over haste is fine.

[saberon]

How much more valuable is Crit over Mastery? The weighting for both is the same, yet Mastery provides a 1.3% bonus for everything bar SW compared to Crit's 1% bonus for everything.

[MoanaLisa]

Int > Hit > Haste is OK although there are plenty of spriests who up to this point have gone Int > Haste > Hit.

Mastery and Crit should be kept roughly equal.

[Encrenca]

currently pulling ~14k dps on a standstill boss fight

why ppl always say i do XXXX dps on a standstill boss fight rather then on test dummy??

14k dps is ok on a friendly caster grp in 10 man but maybe not to good in a 25man.

just my thoughts.

[saberon]

why ppl always say i do XXXX dps on a standstill boss fight rather then on test dummy??

14k dps is ok on a friendly caster grp in 10 man but maybe not to good in a 25man.

just my thoughts.

Can you SW test dummies?

[DeltrusDisc]

I've gotten myself hit capped for level 87 crap in heroics, then for raids I'll just switch out my heroic Sorrowsong for the Baradin's Wardens hit trinket, bam, hit capped and can now focus on getting my lovely haste back up to par. >

For heroics, if hit capped for 87s:
Int>haste>mastery>crit
For raids, if still not hit capped:
spirit (because it equals hit)>int>haste>mastery>crit
if hit capped, just take out the spirit priority.

[Abstieg]

why ppl always say i do XXXX dps on a standstill boss fight rather then on test dummy??

14k dps is ok on a friendly caster grp in 10 man but maybe not to good in a 25man.

just my thoughts.

Dummies do not make good tests.

[rubadub]

why ppl always say i do XXXX dps on a standstill boss fight rather then on test dummy??

14k dps is ok on a friendly caster grp in 10 man but maybe not to good in a 25man.

just my thoughts.

how much dps do you put out?

[New]

You're right Intellect > Hit. I just don't even consider Intellect in mind a lot when talking about stat weights because of how great it is versus secondary stats.

[rubadub]

how could hit not be a priorty; dot ticks can miss?

if your casting and miss you run into the following:

a; makes you recast resulting in loss of valuable dps time
b; miss a valuable spell cast such as mind blast to keep up buffs resulting in waiting for cd to recast
c; screw up rotation because of recasting
d; dots missing ticks resulting in loss of dps

i think hit is more important than you guys are making it out to be

as far as mastery > crit or crit > mastery, that I don't know.

as far as hit, I don't agree with a lot of your proposals unless someone has evidence backing it up.

[New]

I don't mean any rudeness at all, but there are a lot of logical arguments you are ignoring. However if you require hard facts, feel free to download simcraft and see the results for yourself. That is where my information is coming from, and the program is free to use.

---------- Post added 2011-01-03 at 05:57 PM ----------

Actually I'll do it for you because I like poking around in simcraft:

		Int	Spi	SP	Hit	Crit	Haste	Mastery
Scale Factors	2.9800	1.1463	2.3277	1.1577	1.2418	1.5999	1.1171
Normalized	1.0000	0.3847	0.7811	0.3885	0.4167	0.5369	0.3749

**372 BIS profile. Other profile numbers will vary.

These numbers are a little different than ones I've previously posted and I plan on updating some older stuff in a little while. However, you can clearly see that things like Intellect and Spell Power are a bigger factor on our DPS than Hit/Spirit. As for the argument of getting hit capped, I completely agree. Missing spells and not reacting properly can cause a major DPS loss, which is why I also agree that getting to the hit cap is essential for everyone. However, your method simply ignoring the facts is not a good way of looking at.

[Encrenca]

how much dps do you put out?

the question here is not me, or how much dps I do or I don't do.

what I meant to point, was when people talk about personal DPS without even taking into account their group setup.

was not trying to be rude or some smartass.

sorry if sounded like that.

[zenkai]

the question here is not me, or how much dps I do or I don't do.

what I meant to point, was when people talk about personal DPS without even taking into account their group setup.

was not trying to be rude or some smartass.

sorry if sounded like that.

I get what you're saying and I do agree

Target dummies DO make a good baseline test as group comp and boss fights will affect your DPS, to say it's not good to use test dummies because you cant go to execute phases rather absurd.

[rubadub]

I don't mean any rudeness at all, but there are a lot of logical arguments you are ignoring. However if you require hard facts, feel free to download simcraft and see the results for yourself. That is where my information is coming from, and the program is free to use.

---------- Post added 2011-01-03 at 05:57 PM ----------

Actually I'll do it for you because I like poking around in simcraft:

		Int	Spi	SP	Hit	Crit	Haste	Mastery
Scale Factors	2.9800	1.1463	2.3277	1.1577	1.2418	1.5999	1.1171
Normalized	1.0000	0.3847	0.7811	0.3885	0.4167	0.5369	0.3749

**372 BIS profile. Other profile numbers will vary.

These numbers are a little different than ones I've previously posted and I plan on updating some older stuff in a little while. However, you can clearly see that things like Intellect and Spell Power are a bigger factor on our DPS than Hit/Spirit. As for the argument of getting hit capped, I completely agree. Missing spells and not reacting properly can cause a major DPS loss, which is why I also agree that getting to the hit cap is essential for everyone. However, your method simply ignoring the facts is not a good way of looking at.

it's understandable,
I just don't get the Scale Factors and Normalized; what do those numbers represent?

I'm not disagreeing just voicing some thought, so don't take offense;

Also, i'm not "ignoring", rather just questioning and trying to learn.

From my stand point, by looking at those numbers (and guesstimating what they represent), logically it tells me that int is obviously our best stat and out weights hit almost 2-1. The problem with those numbers is that they're skewed because it's also telling me that you should stack int over hit at all cost because it's so valuable.

Logically thinking, a shadow priest with extra int or spell power and ZERO hit won't ever compare to a shadow priest WITH hit and a bit less int and spell power. The reason being, you can have all the int and spell power in the world but if you can't hit the target how much dps are you really going to put out?

I'm just saying hit is valuable and although charts and numbers show intellect as our best "priority" stat, it's not wise to ignore other neccessary stats. Try to go for hit cap, it's easy enough with spirit and the little sacrifice of intellect for hit in my opinion is worth it. You can't compare the two.

[New]

Well you should stack pure Intellect in most cases. However, usually when you get more Intellect your chances to gain more Hit or Spirit increase with the ilevel of the pieces you receive. The only ways you can really neglect Hit over Intellect is through your gemming choices and trinket choices.

I think the problem in your rationale is that you're thinking about the two too independently of each other. If all gear existed as either Intellect or Hit, then there would be more problems, but fortunately, many pieces come with a combination of the two. Gaining the two stats are not mutually exclusive so that negates most of the issue here.

Also, given perfect playing and ideal conditions with all other things equal, what the numbers say is that, yes, a Shadow Priest with 1 more Intellect would out DPS a Shadow Priest with 2 more Hit.

The argument of Intellect > Hit or Hit > Intellect has taken up way more time than it deserves. The pure fact remains that you should get hit capped, but not by sacrificing Intellect to do so (ie. gemming for Intellect, and instead, reforge Mastery to Hit/Spirit)

Also, scaling factors mean how heavily each stat affects our DPS. The higher the number, the more DPS per point of that stat will go up. Normalized divides all the numbers by the largest to make them easier to work with, but they all mean the same thing in the end.

[rubadub]

the question here is not me, or how much dps I do or I don't do.

what I meant to point, was when people talk about personal DPS without even taking into account their group setup.

was not trying to be rude or some smartass.

sorry if sounded like that.

No of course not, just sometimes I like to compare--to learn where I stand with other theorycrafters;
The reason I asked is because you made it sound like 14k dps in a 10 man raid was kind've weak by stating "it's ok but maybe not good for 25 mans" and was just wondering where others stand. I didn't take offense. Promise . Just here to learn.

And ~14k dps is on a boss fight like baradin hold - so it's a 10 man, but i've also done it on tank and spank heroics.

How often do you DPS a level 87 BOSS without any buffs? Only on a test dummy. I never said test dummies are bad. I probably do about 12-13k on it.

[Shantier]

---------- Post added 2011-01-03 at 05:57 PM ----------

[/COLOR]Actually I'll do it for you because I like poking around in simcraft:

		Int	Spi	SP	Hit	Crit	Haste	Mastery
Scale Factors	2.9800	1.1463	2.3277	1.1577	1.2418	1.5999	1.1171
Normalized	1.0000	0.3847	0.7811	0.3885	0.4167	0.5369	0.3749

**372 BIS profile. Other profile numbers will vary.

tbh this numbers seem incorrect, just because hit is valued higher than spirit. This should be equal or even higher for spirit.

[New]

Its just a product of how statistics works. However, as per the best current theory and modeling, the numbers are correct. However, it is your choice whether to believe in them or not. Ideally they would be exactly equal, but that would require even more than 10000 iterations which the test was run at. However, a difference of .0038 is incredibly small and is no cause for cocern.