Feign Death/Vanish/Invisibility~

[Deleted]

@ SilkforCaldeSo say you get a pug, hunter is doing 12k+ dps, CCing right and listening to instructions.You then have an unexpected wipe during which the hunter feigns. You vote to kick and bully everyone else to voting with you being the tank (which is just SO unselfish might I add) and your replacement dps turns out to be some fool with 5k dps an no idea how to play. yeah you've saved LOADS of time there with your quite frankly baffling attitude. Perhaps you can continue to kick people for another half hour or so until someone good shows up, or you could just get the hell on with it. You sir, are a fool.

[Bombkirby]

The question is...why are you telling us? I garuntee you NO ONE here is stupid enough to do that to another group member. So no need to educate us! :3

[taekvideo]

Instead of killing you he should have ran outside the door to reset the boss and save himself the repair bill.
Some people are just dumbasses though.

[Derian]

Meh, the way I see it, every time I avoid a wipe with FD it's saving my guild money. I'll at least try to defib a healer after a wipe, and drop Jeeves if folks need it. As for in pugs, I don't really see why I should care if someone's upset with me for surviving, it's a legitimate use of the ability.

[Duronos]

vanish as assasinaton is a dps cooldown coz it gives u overkill again!

Correct, that is the best use for it at this point in time.

[Duskmourne]

Disrespectful. You will get kicked by me.

No, you won't.

What will happen is that your asinine vote will fail, then you will be kicked by me, the healer. Kicked for being a drama queen and causing the exact type of problem that you seem so dead against.

[Krys]

I would like to justify using Feign Death to survive wipes mainly in my case.

First of all, I personally won't go, "Oh darn tank died but everyone else is alive" *Feign Death and wait for party to die not doing anything to help* I'll use Feign Death to drop all my aggro so the boss isn't/adds aren't attacking me. Then I'll get up and try to do as much damage as I can before either the CD resets and I'm the last or second to last person alive or I get killed.

Another reason a good thing I survive a wipe is, and this is just ME personally, I have Goblin Jumper Cables. There have been times where I have survived a wipe, rezzed the healer, and get the party back up. Granted, not everyone has these or ways to revive and it also doesn't work half the time. Still, it's not like I'm saying "Screw you guys! You have to pay! lolololol"

[ddk]

Given the amount of times that vanish or stealth simply fail completely and are totally ignored by instance mobs and bosses, I rarely even bother to vanish if things are going bad.

[SilkforCalde]

@ SilkforCaldeSo say you get a pug, hunter is doing 12k+ dps, CCing right and listening to instructions.You then have an unexpected wipe during which the hunter feigns. You vote to kick and bully everyone else to voting with you being the tank (which is just SO unselfish might I add) and your replacement dps turns out to be some fool with 5k dps an no idea how to play. yeah you've saved LOADS of time there with your quite frankly baffling attitude. Perhaps you can continue to kick people for another half hour or so until someone good shows up, or you could just get the hell on with it. You sir, are a fool.

If a hunter is good then he understands that it'll take the group longer if he feigns death because the group won't have aspect of the pack for the run back. So this situation wouldn't happen. A hunter that feigns to avoid a wipe is by default a bad hunter.

---------- Post added 2011-01-08 at 04:18 AM ----------

No, you won't.

What will happen is that your asinine vote will fail, then you will be kicked by me, the healer. Kicked for being a drama queen and causing the exact type of problem that you seem so dead against.

No, the healer will be with me. As will the other 2 dps. Sadly, I apparently had to pug a dps which is why a failure like yourself even made it into my group.

[Jeffyjimbob]

If a hunter is good then he understands that it'll take the group longer if he feigns death because the group won't have aspect of the pack for the run back. So this situation wouldn't happen. A hunter that feigns to avoid a wipe is by default a bad hunter.

Most dungeons have teleporters now.

[TehTiny]

So somebody using something to survive automatically makes them a failure? I have conversed with some arrogant people in my days but you may just take the cake. Next you will say that I am a scrub for being the last one standing and finishing the boss. I should have went and stood in the bad and died like the rest of the party to keep from being disrespectful!

[SilkforCalde]

Most dungeons have teleporters now.

Yeah, they teleport you directly onto the boss too. And all of them have teleporters for every single trash pull and every single boss.

[eldritchknight]

Obviously the abilities have multiple PVE and PVP uses. For instance, Invis was used during the Professor Putricide encounter on normal mode so you could dps him during tear gas. There's plenty of other instances to use them.

Avoiding a wipe shows massive disrespect for your group and is one tiny step above not releasing and running back.

You've yet to explain how it's disrespectful. There's no such thing as "solidarity in wiping" or whatever level of respect you think dying accords. When I played my hunter, if I survived, yeah, I ran back and gave people AotP if the instance didn't have teleporters. You're saying that a rogue or a mage, who can in NO WAY help dead people, are being disrespectful too? What if, when the ability was still present, a paladin cast Divine Intervention on someone? Was the paladin disrespectful for avoiding durability damage, and the target disrespectful for not clicking off the buff and dying to "stick with the group"?

Someone who says it's disrespectful to avoid dying is just mad that they can't do it themselves. Or, when you're in a raid and the tank dies, do you think that nobody should run out on a resettable encounter to save the full wipe? Sure, you might say the healer is still alive and can rez to get things going faster again, but what if the healers are dead too? This isn't unheard of. Should the DPS just sit there and eat it?

I guess I should never lay on hands again. No other classes can do it, so it must be terribly disrespectful. What WAS I thinking?

[Jeffyjimbob]

Riddle me this SilkforCalde:

I know you're an orc. But for the sake of my argument, lets say you played on the alliance. You have a NE priest in your party. He's not the healer, he's shadow, and he's a pug. Everyone else is someone you know personally. Your healer dies, you die (assuming you're the tank), two of the DPS die, and the NE shadow priest shadowmelds. Is it still rude that the priest avoided death? Cause now he can resurrect you and save you the walk back. If you still think it's rude, you're obviously butt-hurt over the fact that as a warrior, you have no means of surviving a wipe other than hoping you can make it to the portal out.

Yeah, they teleport you directly onto the boss too. And all of them have teleporters for every single trash pull and every single boss.

So funny joke.
If you're really that upset that a hunter isn't there to shave a 30 second or less run, by 40%, you should seek help, they make pills that'll keep you happy.

[Deleted]

If a hunter is good then he understands that it'll take the group longer if he feigns death because the group won't have aspect of the pack for the run back. So this situation wouldn't happen. A hunter that feigns to avoid a wipe is by default a bad hunter.

---------- Post added 2011-01-08 at 04:18 AM ----------



No, the healer will be with me. As will the other 2 dps. Sadly, I apparently had to pug a dps which is why a failure like yourself even made it into my group.

What ARE you talking about?! I've been playing this game as a hunter for 6 years and I've NEVER met someone with an attitude to feign like yours. I know my class inside and out and I have never had complaints about my survival abilities and quite frankly, how dare you tell me or anyone else how we should be playing. Sheer bitterness and envy cos you cannot do it yourself is just childish and pathetic.

[Deleted]

A hunter that feigns to avoid a wipe is by default a bad hunter.

Really hope you are trolling there mate, you want the hunter to die only to give the rest of the group aspect of the pack to save a barely noticeable amount of time? What do you do if someone has to go afk for a min, you kick them? That is nothing but incredibly selfish, arrogant, inpatient and immature.

[Moggle]

SilkforCalde, your premise relies on the person either being a hunter (even if this is the case it's just silly to demand that the hunter dies to give you aspect of the pack to save a miniscule amount of time) or something bugging or simply not working as intended, which most of the time will not be the case. I'm sure that if one would play this game thinking that any and everything could and would bug at any given moment then that would change a lot, however.. as things tend to work as intended we should assume that they will, most of the time.

Now, if I as a rogue choose to vanish to spare myself a few gold and a bit of time running that I can instead use to get myself a cup of tea or whatever I like in the meantime then that's my business, unless I know this will have a direct impact on the dungeon group (for whatever reason), which it in most cases will not have. Furthermore, your entire attitude towards the issue is just silly. As someone mentioned.. it's a "my way or the highway" kind of attitude which I would say is far more disrespectful than letting yourself live through a failed attempt at a boss, especially since a lot of people seem to disagree with you on the issue.

[Derian]

No, the healer will be with me. As will the other 2 dps. Sadly, I apparently had to pug a dps which is why a failure like yourself even made it into my group.

Well, if there're four folks from the same guild with me as the only pug and the group wipes, no biggie. But if they started bitching at me for not dying, I'd just save them the trouble of a vote to kick and drop on my own. I'll just wait out the debuff and go with people who're good enough to not wipe.

[Gnull]

---------- Post added 2011-01-08 at 03:33 AM ----------

Because I've never seen anything positive come from someone avoiding a wipe.

I have, however, seen groups fall apart due to things like repops after people pulled this crap.

I've seen bosses and mobs bug out from it.

It shows, to me, that you value 5 gold more than you value the group. Disrespectful. You will get kicked by me.

There are a few specific situations where avoiding death can cause problems for the group. I agree that in those cases, it is better to not use abilities that avoid the wipe. Divine Intervention, before its removal, had similar problems, where what was supposed to be a wipe recovery tool would instead cause bugs.

In your average 5-man? It typically makes no difference one way or another. If someone can avoid a repair bill, then why not? With regard to the Hunter/Aspect of the Pack thing- I would never ask, or expect, for someone else in a group to pay so that it takes me maybe 10 seconds less to do a corpse run. That, to me, seems lazy in the same way that not wanting to die and run back seems lazy and disrespectful to you. "Hey will you die so I can run back from the graveyard faster?" seems no better than laying there refusing to release and waiting for the rest of the group to make the run and rez you.

In PUG groups, I see people do foolish things and can tell almost immediately that they are going to cause a wipe. A tank overpulling when the healer has previously been struggling, not waiting for OOM healers, DPS pulling when the group isn't ready, etc. When the wipe comes, I pop vanish/invisibility/whatever. The argument against it is what- that in subservience to some imagined esprit de corps with four guys that I was paired with at random, I should pay gold for their dumb judgement?

In cases where it causes actual harm to the party (bugs, respawn, etc.), don't do it. In cases where it causes no harm to the rest of the party, I don't understand the objection. I've been in groups where someone else survived a wipe when I died. I never felt slighted or disrespected by that in the least.

[a1derful1]

If a hunter is good then he understands that it'll take the group longer if he feigns death because the group won't have aspect of the pack for the run back. So this situation wouldn't happen. A hunter that feigns to avoid a wipe is by default a bad hunter.

No, the healer will be with me. As will the other 2 dps. Sadly, I apparently had to pug a dps which is why a failure like yourself even made it into my group.

/sigh....way to make tanks look bad. Just cuz you can't fd, vanish, or invis doesn't mean they shouldn't. To say "If I am gonna die then you need to die as well" is childish....just stop making yourself look like a fool.

If I'm tanking and a hunter, rogue, or mage lives through a wipe then more power to them. I know if I'm on my hunter and someone whines that I didn't die and wants me gone then they can kiss my butt.

The next tank I get in a group with that doesn't whine probably would be more apt to not wipe in the first place.