frustrated tank

[Jenako]

Hey guys,
Im an ilvl 346 prot warrior and have been tanking many heroics. I usually do it with guildies but in the past two days some friends were on vacation, so i decided to pug. In these pugs, I was kicked many times:
-Once in SFK, after we killed first boss no problem, I told the group that I didnt know the rest of the fights, so id appreciate explanations. I was kicked.
-In Lost City, I marked targets and explained who to sheep/root and DPS rooted first then took about 5 additional seconds to sheep, in which all the mobs were now seperated, with no way for me to hold agro. I was kicked.
-In grim batol, I would mark targets and tried to explain but was told to "stop being a p***y tank", so i charged into a group of like 6 = wipe. Kicked.
- In stonecore, on second to last boss (i joined while group was in progress), I got hit by his ground slam (hey, it happens to all of us)...kicked.

I know it may sound as if im QQing...but i just want to know if this happens to other tanks. Also, I dont understand why I would get kicked so often if queues without a tank are really long. Thanks guys, please post any similar stories. (I guess if you wanna bash me as well, go ahead)

[AetherMcLoud]

Ozruk in Stonecore. The bane of tanks. If you get unlucky with his special abilities he will do ground stomp and shatter exactly one after the other (I think that's the name of the abilities, maybe the other way 'round). If you run from the ground stomp you get instantly killed by the shatter, if you don't run from the ground stomp you will die too. Lose-Lose situation. I think this is one of the first bosses that will get nerfed hard. It's pretty much random when he uses what ability, and each of his 2 melee abilities are instant kills most of the time.

That aside, I wouldn't even lose a single thought for getting kicked in such situations as you described. Just re-queue and instantly hit another dungeon while the other 4 people who kicked you are still waiting for a tank.

[yjmark]

- In stonecore, on second to last boss (i joined while group was in progress), I got hit by his ground slam (hey, it happens to all of us)...kicked.

One piece of advice - don't join groups "in process". 9/10 times, it is because of a bad group. Once in a while you'll get lucky and the group will be decent. However, most of the time.....yikes. This is just from my own experience. Your mileage may vary.

Other than that, it just sounds like a string of bad luck. I've been in many PuGs where people actually listen, are patient, and overall have a good experience.

[kortin]

Ozruk in Stonecore. The bane of tanks. If you get unlucky with his special abilities he will do ground stomp and shatter exactly one after the other (I think that's the name of the abilities, maybe the other way 'round). If you run from the ground stomp you get instantly killed by the shatter, if you don't run from the ground stomp you will die too. Lose-Lose situation. I think this is one of the first bosses that will get nerfed hard. It's pretty much random when he uses what ability, and each of his 2 melee abilities are instant kills most of the time.

That aside, I wouldn't even lose a single thought for getting kicked in such situations as you described. Just re-queue and instantly hit another dungeon while the other 4 people who kicked you are still waiting for a tank.

Well its not entirely random. Shatter will always be cast right after Elementium Bulwark falls off. As for the ground stop, i think that is pretty random. But I've found Shatter is always cast right after elementium bulwark falls off and, so far, i've been correct about it.

[Shinshiva]

The worst part is when dps just run in when you are waiting for mobs to come after a CC pull. I got kicked by a failure of a dps feral druid (he said in chat: "wtf tank hold aggro much?") because he just couldn't keep his penis off his keyboard long enough for me to touch mobs. I mean seriously, you fucking idiot. Calm down with your giant forehead dick slapping enough to learn how to play..

EDIT: I have to admit, getting kicked from those kinds of groups is a blessing really. It means I can just re-queue instantly.

[CynicalOtaku]

The Ozruk dance is pretty simple, but if you screw it up you either die or wipe half your group.

He generally pounds once before his first shatter, and then fairly reliably pounds after all of his shatters. What that means for a warrior tank is to just stay on your toes and never charge after a shatter. You don't take a lot of damage (I don't rotate CDs on him because he doesn't spend enough time attacking me to be worth it). Paralyze warns you a shatter is about to happen, so you get out, get back in. As you get more savvy with the fight you can push it closer to the actual range of shatter which results in less boss movement. As soon as you're running back in, keep an eye out for ground slam. It's a long cast so you have plenty of time to duck behind him.

Never charge. Every time I charged him he spun around and immediately started casting ground slam. This will most likely wipe your group. And it will be your fault. You don't need charge for this fight.

Not to say that the screwup deserved a kick. Ozruk is a very unforgiving boss. You either do it right and take relatively little damage, or you screw it up once and the group wipes.

[igtenos]

Sounds typical of my pugging experience. Nobody has any patience whatsoever or worst just lash out at the tank/healer/person responsible for the wipe. I'm giving it time. Eventually I'll either start playing my druid as resto (40m queues for dps is too much -- my main is a mage) or I'll just wait until my guild gets more people geared up.

Until then I'll work on my archeology probably.

[AetherMcLoud]

Well its not entirely random. Shatter will always be cast right after Elementium Bulwark falls off. As for the ground stop, i think that is pretty random. But I've found Shatter is always cast right after elementium bulwark falls off and, so far, i've been correct about it.

Yes not entirely random, but not entirely pre-defined either. Or bugged as hell, dunno. I've successfully tanked him on my druid main lots of times now, only wiping 3-4 times the first time I was there. Yesterday on my Paladin alt (347 iLevel now so that is not a problem) I just couldn't tank him right in about 6 tries, than I just lost interest trying it.

Some of those tries the first ability he used was ground slam. Sometimes the first ability was shatter. Sometimes elementium shield. Most of the times he casts his shields before paralyzing, but sometimes he cast them right after paralyzing us.

Also I found him EXTREMLY hard on a paladin tank because I couldn't charge back after the shatter (never had the problem on my druid that he would turn around after charging back and cast ground slam into the party), so he would always move closer to me after shatter and I got more and more away from my healer (who was then paralyzed too).

[Deathfairy]

Hey guys,
Im an ilvl 346 prot warrior and have been tanking many heroics. I usually do it with guildies but in the past two days some friends were on vacation, so i decided to pug. In these pugs, I was kicked many times:
-Once in SFK, after we killed first boss no problem, I told the group that I didnt know the rest of the fights, so id appreciate explanations. I was kicked.
-In Lost City, I marked targets and explained who to sheep/root and DPS rooted first then took about 5 additional seconds to sheep, in which all the mobs were now seperated, with no way for me to hold agro. I was kicked.
-In grim batol, I would mark targets and tried to explain but was told to "stop being a p***y tank", so i charged into a group of like 6 = wipe. Kicked.
- In stonecore, on second to last boss (i joined while group was in progress), I got hit by his ground slam (hey, it happens to all of us)...kicked.

I know it may sound as if im QQing...but i just want to know if this happens to other tanks. Also, I dont understand why I would get kicked so often if queues without a tank are really long. Thanks guys, please post any similar stories. (I guess if you wanna bash me as well, go ahead)

In all my heroics while tanking i ran into ONE group i was not able to carry to completion (outside first few days when i was 329 iLvL) Not once i even came close to being kicked. So if you are getting consistently kicked chances are it your own fault.

Looking at your examples:

SFK - not much to say ( well when i did them no one knew the bosses so it hard for me to comment, but i DID have bosskiller strats open for a week so i can take a quick look before the boss)

Lost City - Even if dps messed up the cc (who da hell needs cc on first pull in lost city anyway when u 346 geared and your healer isnt in greens.. but that is off topic) It is still you job to get situation under control, i find it hardly possible that situation was impossible to manage, you just didnt do it properly, you have 2 taunts, charge, intercept, stuns, cds to allow healer to heal himself/or dps instead of u etc.

GB - you listen to a noob and caused a wipe... Next time someone tells you to jump of the bridge will you do it?

Stonecore - You failed. 1 fail = kick is a bit harsh, BUT given the situation that u came in as a replacement tank they probably wipefested before because tank failed, now you come in and fail again... i can see their point, especialy if you failed early with boss still at 80% or so. Making it seem like you dont know how to do it. I doubt that if you would mess up at 10-20% you would get kicked.

---------- Post added 2011-01-10 at 06:38 PM ----------

Ozruk in Stonecore. The bane of Noob tanks.

There fixed that for you. Yes that fight requires tank to pay attention and is very unforgiving of mistakes, but in all honesty there is nothing complicated about it. It was abit harsh to do when there was no good explanations/videos for it. Now go watch 3 min video and u know what to do.

[sebirean]

Yes, we all get kicked as tanks. People like to blame the key members of the group first, ie tank and healer. Everyone kind of glosses over the fact that some DPS do 6k, are 10% below the TANK'S damage, and the encounter lasts so long the healer goes OOM. Hang in there!

Re Ozruk: Group positioning is key, because of his ground slam. In my opinion, the easier way to do it is clear the group of mobs next to a tent immediately on his right. Then have the ranged DPS/Healer stand there while you engage the Ozruk where he starts.

when running away from shatter, run down the middle of the path back the way you came. If he ground slams immediately after you will see him casting, so you can side step to the right.

His ground slam is targeted in a straight line to where you are the moment he starts casting it. All together this means that the ground slam that happens to follow a shatter will always follow the predicted path down the middle, avoiding your group and you if you're careful.

This as a Paladin tank, with no charges... but at least i get bubble for Magmaw :P

[Deathfairy]

Yes not entirely random, but not entirely pre-defined either. Or bugged as hell, dunno. I've successfully tanked him on my druid main lots of times now, only wiping 3-4 times the first time I was there. Yesterday on my Paladin alt (347 iLevel now so that is not a problem) I just couldn't tank him right in about 6 tries, than I just lost interest trying it.

Some of those tries the first ability he used was ground slam. Sometimes the first ability was shatter. Sometimes elementium shield. Most of the times he casts his shields before paralyzing, but sometimes he cast them right after paralyzing us.

Also I found him EXTREMLY hard on a paladin tank because I couldn't charge back after the shatter (never had the problem on my druid that he would turn around after charging back and cast ground slam into the party), so he would always move closer to me after shatter and I got more and more away from my healer (who was then paralyzed too). .

You dont need charge, due to lag/fail or some other issue when i was charging back on my druid it would always overshoot ( i think it is because i did it too late, but not sure) So i stopped charging back and just walked to him. Sure he ends up moving but if you do it in zigzarg pattern you have plenty of space. And being out of healers range for 2-3 sec will not kill you. Pop cd for enrage.

[Deleted]

Am I the only one who hasn't actually been kicked from a group, but does the kicking?

[AetherMcLoud]

There fixed that for you. Yes that fight requires tank to pay attention and is very unforgiving of mistakes, but in all honesty there is nothing complicated about it. It was abit harsh to do when there was no good explanations/videos for it. Now go watch 3 min video and u know what to do.

I am certainly no noob tank. I wiped 3 times on Ozruk on my druid main the first time because I didn't know the fight, then killed im. Then did him repeatedly over two weeks. Yesterday on my Paladin alt I just couldn't tank him. Maybe because I don't know the paladin as good as the druid when it comes to muscle memory, maybe because I was tired at 8pm after doing heroics since midday, or maybe because I found it a lot easier on the druid where I could charge back to him after a shatter. (Never encountered the problem with charging through him on my druid on all those tries, and I mostly used skull bash instead of feral charge too)

[Jenako]

The Ozruk dance is pretty simple, but if you screw it up you either die or wipe half your group.


Never charge. Every time I charged him he spun around and immediately started casting ground slam. This will most likely wipe your group. And it will be your fault. You don't need charge for this fight.

Not to say that the screwup deserved a kick. Ozruk is a very unforgiving boss. You either do it right and take relatively little damage, or you screw it up once and the group wipes.

that was exactly my mistake

[Deleted]

Ozruk in Stonecore. The bane of tanks. If you get unlucky with his special abilities he will do ground stomp and shatter exactly one after the other (I think that's the name of the abilities, maybe the other way 'round). If you run from the ground stomp you get instantly killed by the shatter, if you don't run from the ground stomp you will die too. Lose-Lose situation. I think this is one of the first bosses that will get nerfed hard. It's pretty much random when he uses what ability, and each of his 2 melee abilities are instant kills most of the time.

That aside, I wouldn't even lose a single thought for getting kicked in such situations as you described. Just re-queue and instantly hit another dungeon while the other 4 people who kicked you are still waiting for a tank.

this is easy avoidable by running away and avoiding the spikes.

However for me ... I have in fact never gotten kicked from a group in cataclysm, and so far i have only pugged. I cleared all heroics during the first week of release pretty much. As a tank you should just take lead and set up the things. If they dont cc something just grab it.. If i caster is spread just silence it and let it come to you ... Maybe because im a DK, (i dont know how threat works for other tanks atm) but i never had any threat problems at all

---------- Post added 2011-01-10 at 07:49 PM ----------

that was exactly my mistake

Also if your group die from this, they are just either plain stupid or sleeping .. cause they got plenty of time from moving.... just like the tank

---------- Post added 2011-01-10 at 07:51 PM ----------

no offense to anyone.. but people complaining about ozruk is just either l2p issues, or lack of understandment for mechanics.. Its and easy boss, which the tanks shouldnt die in..

[Blahu - Twisting Nether]

Ozruk is just a pain imo. Easy but a pain. Strafe from the slam...RUN RUNNNN! Ok back in position. I wiped like 4 times because I tried relying on DBM for the shatter. You save half a second if you watch his cast bar. It also seemed like he cast shatter a second after paralyze if that helps you with the timing.

More OT though: If people are being retarded and you get kicked because of it, just shrug that experience off. Honestly Tanks and healers get blamed the most because of how obvious our mistakes are. If people refuse to CC and we charge to show them they blame us when we die.
Also if people are breaking cc and blaming it on you, download an addon like Raid Buff Status. You can tell what buffs people are lacking and you can set it to announce in party if a non-tank breaks cc.

[martyisokay]

And a majority of the WoW community wonder why there is such a long queue. Treating the tank like crap leads to a frustrated tank; thus, isolating his or herself to guild-only runs. I am one of the tanks. The people in the LFD tool are VERY unforgiving for any sort of mistake; they also seek perfection when its not possible in any sort of pug run.

[Smoshreptar]

If you aren't bad, people won't kick you. I haven't been kicked from a group EVER. Wanna know the trick? Stop sucking at WoW.

[Jenako]

And a majority of the WoW community wonder why there is such a long queue. Treating the tank like crap leads to a frustrated tank; thus, isolating his or herself to guild-only runs. I am one of the tanks. The people in the LFD tool are VERY unforgiving for any sort of mistake; they also seek perfection when its not possible in any sort of pug run.

my theory is that because DPS wait such long queues, once they get in...the expect a quick and easy, essentially perfect run. that doesnt always happen

[Blahu - Twisting Nether]

If you aren't bad, people won't kick you. I haven't been kicked from a group EVER. Wanna know the trick? Stop sucking at WoW.

Not a very helpful post.... Truth of the matter is that most dps don't care if the person is a good tank or a bad tank. If you screw up once, or the dps screw up and it causes a wipe a reasonable amount of dps will initiate a kick. And then of course there's the fact people mindlessly click yes and don't care but that's a whole different matter.