Icelance spam, why is this not being addressed in the PTR?

[zingar]

Oh the old fudging argument ''this game is not 1v1''

Well NEWSFLASH 3v3= 1v1+1v1+1v1
Same with 5v5,10v10...they're all really just a bigger 1v1

Saying that 1v1 does not matter is ignorance at the highest level.I will NOT deny that class synergie and teamplay is a very important aspect in arena but if there's no balance in 1v1 ,nothing is balanced.
Why should we have a healer to dispel and heal us through mage damage in order to beat one?
This argument is bs,cause it's assuming we need partners to defeat a single mage,but if you have partners then the mage has partners too.

exactly.

frost mages are OP pvp wise and anyone who says no to that is just.. dumb.
i mean, why do you (mages) think so many guys cry about you being OP? sure theres always people complaining but the crying about mages in pvp is FAR beyond normal. there was even a poll not to long ago about which class was most OP in pvp and i beleive mages had 80%+ of the votes (1000+votes)
its also funny because even though they are "casters" i hardly ever actually see them "casting" anything -_-. the amount of instants and abilities they have is just stupid
(i also never understood why the HELL does blink remove stun? it doesnt make any sense..)

[Wizie]

I have to admit. Being a frost / fire mage.. also doing pvp and knowing a lot about my class..

I laugh at these threads because i know anyone complaining in them is a scrub at pvp.

I will admit, frost is doing a lot of damage in pvp. But its gonna do even more against people who dont know how to LoS, Dispell or focus you.

So please, continue feeding me with your tears and admitting you're bad at pvp.

[Swizzle]

I just want to point out that Frost damage has actually gone down in terms of "precent max health" this expansion than previous ones.

Average Shatter Combo TBC: 5-6k
Average HP Pool TBC: 12-14k
Average Percent Max HP Damage: 42.31%

Average Shatter Combo WotLK: 10-11k
Average HP Pool WotLK: 22-24k
Average Percent Max HP Damage: 45.65%

Average Shatter Combo Cata: 35-40k
Average HP Pool Cata: 120-125k
Average Percent Max HP Damage: 30.61%

Get some PvP gear, learn your class, and learn math (it's what the game is based off of).

[Marc123]

Frost mages... man this brings back memories from Vanilla.

Frost mages are insane because of a combination of factors, but most importantly because WoW is not a 1v1 game. All of their abilities are designed to engage multiple targets, so what do you expect when a mage sheeps your healer? It becomes 1v1 as long as that Poly lasts, and when they bring the multiple abilities given to them to bear on 1 target, it can get messy, sure, but stop acting like it isnt preventable - Us LoS, for exmaple... How about a catform with feline sprint? Pop out and HoT yourself so the mage, possibly, spends a GCD spellstealing it instead of spamming icelance... shift and run away until your healer isnt Poly'd anymore.

I'm tired of seeing people complain because they cant slam their faces against brick walls anymore and are shocked when their nose starts bleeding instead of the wall crumbling. Very little in this game is about running straight at opponents thinking you can shrug off anything they throw at you... Tactics and Strategy win now. As for Ring of Frost, what's your complaint, really? It's just like fire in raids - you're given time to move, and if you stand in it or run through after that time is up, you suffer the consequences; It is quite easily avoided in most scenarios so falling victim to it outside of those situations is like suing a supermarket because an automatic door owned you.

You have abilities, you have terrain, you have teammates... Use them. I've never seen a bigger bunch of malcontents in this game when it comes to death and losing... If you werent meant to die, your character would start at lvl 1 every time it happened.

Now i have 4 mages, but before you start screaming bloody biased murder, 3 of them are Fire. the 4th is Frost for leveling. I have pvp'd using mages in 39, 49, 59, 69, 79, 80 and 85 as Fire and used to raid BWL/AQ/Naxx as a frostie back in Vanilla, even in BC before T5. I topped meters, 1 and 2 all raid long. Had nothing to do with Frost being OP then, i just knew what i was doing. I love fire, not frost... it's my preference. Take any class in this game and put an intelligent, analytical and clever person behind it and you have a dangerous opponent... If you're so easy to kill by a frost mage, then you are either lacking in those qualities or you're simply not applying them to your gameplay. In either case and until you figure out how to take advantage of all the assets this game gives you, you will never be content. Stop asking to be served, and serve for a change.

GET OUT OF HERE ... Complaining about people complaining is disingenuous. Mages are the two-fingered FACEROLL CLASS that is so OP'ed it is not funny. The ability to chain freeze and entire raid group in PVP is ridiculous. Melee is no longer viable. Voicing an opinion on the forums about wolves in the game is like talking to the wolf himself. It's time to by-pass the forums and write the Blizz CEO -

Mr. Mike Morhaime, CEO
Blizzard Entertainment
P.O. Box 18979
Irvine, CA 92623

Inundating his office with letter is better than having your forum note deleted, and will likely get a better response. I don't think the CEO knows jack about what's going on.

[Deleted]

I just want to point out that Frost damage has actually gone down in terms of "precent max health" this expansion than previous ones.

Average Shatter Combo TBC: 5-6k
Average HP Pool TBC: 12-14k
Average Percent Max HP Damage: 42.31%

Average Shatter Combo WotLK: 10-11k
Average HP Pool WotLK: 22-24k
Average Percent Max HP Damage: 45.65%

Average Shatter Combo Cata: 35-40k
Average HP Pool Cata: 120-125k
Average Percent Max HP Damage: 30.61%

Get some PvP gear, learn your class, and learn math (it's what the game is based off of).

1st your numbers are WRONG
2nd you forgot to mention that in tbc/wotlk you could heal youself from 10% to 100% from almost 1 heal
3rd i see so many mages that didn't ever pass 1.5k before doing 2k now... guess mages are hard to play huh.

[Deleted]

Well, what i can say is Im a frost DK with 3.3 ress.

Still a good mage Pwn my ass like nothing. Giving me the feeling im kinda toy for them.

i know my class verry well but agains mages..........


Me: HB ( desease on him and slow him)
Me: strangulate

Mage: Mirror and blink ( with improve aswell)
Me: Death grip and anti magic shield ( to avoid a stun)

Mage: Ice block
Me: at that point im doomed. anti magic is down
Mage: frost trap me and burst Frost bold ( sometime's Time warp and ice veins)
Me : Try to walk to him ( moving 50 slower speed)
Mage: Deep freeze me>
Me: trinket!
mage: frost trap me and start kitting me Ice lance ice lance Ice lance and all this can happin in 15 sec and my anti magic shield is on a 45 sec cd.
Mage: Use that thing that restore mana and health if he know my Death grip is on cd.

I mean if there's anything i can do here, pls tell me since im playing my Dk since release till now. I have try everything by sometime's changing my rotation on ability's agains a mage, but its just imposible for me whatever i do.

[Comby]

Stop complaining he is a feral. That doesnt mean anything, as blizzard has aknowledged it and are nurfit it to the ground. Nurfing warriors aswell, nurfing dks both dmg and ns. But the by far deserving class that should be nurfed gets nothing. Saying that a frost mages dmg isnt overpowered is retarded.

I got 3500 resi on my dk, and several times Ive died gettings trained by a shitty mage, who deep freezes me at 50-60%, with my trinket down, one silly silence on my healer, and bam, 25 frostbolt, 25k icelance, 25k icelance, dead.

SKILLS, mages are fine, l2p, dont stand in ring of frost, just dont get kited. 1 death grip vs 10 different freezes is fair, prooo. resilience will fix it, <--------Mages enjoying this godmode.

[iceberg265]

It is not being addressed because only terrible players die to ice lance spam.

[Deleted]

It is not being addressed because only terrible players die to ice lance spam.

Ah pls come on, listen to yourself!

[Comby]

For any1 in denial about frost mages insane godly overpoweredness, here is a paste of the post I made on the official ptr forums

Level 80 mage completely and utterly destroys lvl 85 pvp kitted out opponents in duel

http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=173465

You might argue that the people he duels might not be all that great, or that "this game isnt balanced towards 1v1", but come on. You cant ignore the fact that here is a lvl 80 mage that completely destroys almost every class and spec in the game in a duel, without even needing to use his iceblock once.....(except against the feral druid and enh shammy.
Several of his duel targets are completely kitted out in pvp gear, if not all of them.

the level 85 classes and specs he destroys are:

2 x Lvl 85 arms warriors
Lvl 85 shadow priest
Lvl 85 Holy priest
Lvl 85 disc priest
Lvl 85 retribution paladin
2 x Lvl 85 holy paladin
Lvl 85 beastmaster hunter
Lvl 85 ss rogue
Lvl 85 Muti rogue
Lvl 85 feral druid.............LoL
Lvl 85 clueless frostmage XD
2 x lvl 85 resto shamans
1 x enh shaman

There is no other class in the game that can do this.

Even tho all the devs seem to play mages themselves you seriously cant continue to pretend nothing is wrong with this class. With the allaround nurfs to several classes, im still completely dumbstruck and confused about lack of ANY balancing to mages. Arms warrs got a huge mobility nurf, ferals a huge nurf allaround, mages got ........ You cant balance and nurf all classes except one, then just leave one class to continue in its godmode.

changing a 10 yard ring of frost to 8 yards is just an insult
If you hit a mage, you can get frozen
Pet freezes you
Deep freeze destroys you
frostnova freezes you
Cone of cold freezes you
Their frostbolt can freeze you
Their ring of frost leaves you open to get frozen several times, and "dont stand in it" is obsolete statement, as your always slowed or frozen in place in the damn thing when its cast.

Something seriously needs to be done.

If anyone from the US realms reads this, feel free to copy and paste it on the US forum since there doesnt even seem the devs reads the Eu ptr forum., not checked if I got accsess there.

[Deleted]

Average Shatter Combo TBC: 5-6k
Average HP Pool TBC: 12-14k
Average Percent Max HP Damage: 42.31%

I remmember it doing like 4k if both crit and you were damn overgearing, so it was usualy like 3k, that's like 25% of pools, right?
(also this was not with stun at that time)

[Swizzle]

I remmember it doing like 4k if both crit and you were damn overgearing, so it was usualy like 3k, that's like 25% of pools, right?
(also this was not with stun at that time)

My Frostbolt was doing between 2.5 and 4k crits in S4, and Ice Lance was around 1.5 to 2k. In those days, a Shatter Combo could literally be game changing (you also didn't need Deep Freeze because you had a non-DR Kidney Shot set up already, seeing as how RM and RMP were the only viable comps for a Mage in those days). The reason it was so potent was because there was only one way to set it up: pet Freeze, and that was on a long CD and could only happen once per Water Elemental. Now that the pet is permanent and Shatter Combos are more common, the overall damage has been reduced through weaker Frostbolt scaling and DRASTICALLY increased health pools.

It's just very problematic now because people just don't want to get PvP gear for PvP, since the season started...barely a month ago.

[Anaralah]

I got 3500 resi on my dk, and several times Ive died gettings trained by a shitty mage, who deep freezes me at 50-60%, with my trinket down, one silly silence on my healer, and bam, 25 frostbolt, 25k icelance, 25k icelance, dead.

on a 3500 resilience target frb will hit for 17-18k max while icelance will hit for 12-13k and on the next patch those icelances will do %15 less dmg on deep freezed target (unless mage also has fof procced)

mage: frost trap me and start kitting me Ice lance ice lance Ice lance

assuming that frost trap is frost nova (as you have trinketed the first DF and using the second one is usually not a good idea because of DR) last two of these three icelances will hit for 3k and they probably will not crit as target will not be frozen after the first one breaks nova , right way to shatter a nova would be frostbolt+icelance

so people if you want to prove the opness of frost mages do some research instead of exaggerating

Thing i find op about the frost mages is that they have so many ways to freeze a target that they can shatter too many times one after another , this especially becomes a real issue when mage couples with a healer or dot class like affli/spirest as mage simply can shatter on every freeze while enemy healer is crowd controlled or vs teams without a defensive dispel without the fear of freezes breaking from dmg

This becomes a less issue when it comes to 3vs3 or mage couples with a high burst dmg dealer as all freezes will get broken/dispelled or mage will not be able to pull a frostbolt with a dps on him (assumıng mages team gets one of the targets crowd controlled) so only occasions of burst will be on deep freezes (which mages might try to pull a frostbolt on next patch b4 icelanceing) and fof procs.

[Deleted]

My Frostbolt was doing between 2.5 and 4k

I've never seen that high frostbolts when u get those 400 resil or whatever it was in BC, crit damage reduction was high enough to bone crits.
Also most of BC was S3, it lasted so loooong.

[CrunkJuice5]

its not being adressed because its pvp related


blizzard cares little to none about pvp in this game.ive known this since the week i started doing it

or maybe you just need to l2p,because i wreck caster classes on my feral druid

[Swizzle]

I've never seen that high frostbolts when u get those 400 resil or whatever it was in BC, crit damage reduction was high enough to bone crits.
Also most of BC was S3, it lasted so loooong.

OH god yes it was, thank god they didn't delay PvE content patches in those days because everything came out in a timely manner right? Anyway, 4k was a high end estimate since not everyone was resil capped in those days, much like they're not now, huh?

[rtjason]

For any1 in denial about frost mages insane godly overpoweredness, here is a paste of the post I made on the official ptr forums

Level 80 mage completely and utterly destroys lvl 85 pvp kitted out opponents in duel

http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=173465

You might argue that the people he duels might not be all that great, or that "this game isnt balanced towards 1v1", but come on. You cant ignore the fact that here is a lvl 80 mage that completely destroys almost every class and spec in the game in a duel, without even needing to use his iceblock once.....(except against the feral druid and enh shammy.
Several of his duel targets are completely kitted out in pvp gear, if not all of them.

the level 85 classes and specs he destroys are:

2 x Lvl 85 arms warriors
Lvl 85 shadow priest
Lvl 85 Holy priest
Lvl 85 disc priest
Lvl 85 retribution paladin
2 x Lvl 85 holy paladin
Lvl 85 beastmaster hunter
Lvl 85 ss rogue
Lvl 85 Muti rogue
Lvl 85 feral druid.............LoL
Lvl 85 clueless frostmage XD
2 x lvl 85 resto shamans
1 x enh shaman

There is no other class in the game that can do this.

Even tho all the devs seem to play mages themselves you seriously cant continue to pretend nothing is wrong with this class. With the allaround nurfs to several classes, im still completely dumbstruck and confused about lack of ANY balancing to mages. Arms warrs got a huge mobility nurf, ferals a huge nurf allaround, mages got ........ You cant balance and nurf all classes except one, then just leave one class to continue in its godmode.

changing a 10 yard ring of frost to 8 yards is just an insult
If you hit a mage, you can get frozen
Pet freezes you
Deep freeze destroys you
frostnova freezes you
Cone of cold freezes you
Their frostbolt can freeze you
Their ring of frost leaves you open to get frozen several times, and "dont stand in it" is obsolete statement, as your always slowed or frozen in place in the damn thing when its cast.

Something seriously needs to be done.

If anyone from the US realms reads this, feel free to copy and paste it on the US forum since there doesnt even seem the devs reads the Eu ptr forum., not checked if I got accsess there.

I highlighted your more intelligent statements for you. First of all, you can't combine what mages used to be able to do in wotlk with what we can do now. Second of all, if you trinket ring of frost, you have three seconds to get out of it before it will freeze you again (and that's getting nerfed.) Frostbolt and Frost armor neither freeze you anymore, however they still slow you.

Any fully pvp geared class at 80 can beat many classes at 85 due to stat scaling. Maybe you aren't familiar with this or don't understand the term. At 80, my mage had 33% crit chance, with a good bit of haste, along with something like 50% damage mitigation and could kill anything in one deep freeze. At 85, geared about as well as anyone can be geared for pvp, taht crit chance is 20%, a deep freeze is around 30% of someone's health (unless I get lucky RNG), and have around 31% damage mitigation. That video was made before any of the mages opponents could possibly be well geared in season gear so their stats are even less. (assuming it's the same video I've seen)

If mathematics just isn't your department, then find someone who is good at it and have them check the numbers from a full wrathful 80 vs a full bloodthirsty 85 and you will see that the numbers are pretty much leaning towards the 80 winning in most cases.

---------- Post added 2011-01-22 at 04:44 AM ----------

Stop complaining he is a feral. That doesnt mean anything, as blizzard has aknowledged it and are nurfit it to the ground. Nurfing warriors aswell, nurfing dks both dmg and ns. But the by far deserving class that should be nurfed gets nothing. Saying that a frost mages dmg isnt overpowered is retarded.

I got 3500 resi on my dk, and several times Ive died gettings trained by a shitty mage, who deep freezes me at 50-60%, with my trinket down, one silly silence on my healer, and bam, 25 frostbolt, 25k icelance, 25k icelance, dead.

<--------Mages enjoying this godmode(but dks still shut mages down).

Your numbers are still bullshit too. Also, since mages are typically double dps comps, I'm not sure how you think that a mage team is supposed to kill you unless it be by a well timed counterspell with you at 50% and two dps on you. I mean, it sounds like you are running a hard comp and all (dk/healer) but perhaps you need to take your strategy up a bit?

[Stanton Biston]

...

Why did I let this flame/whinefest continue for so long?