[Discussion] Validity / Effectiveness of PW:S for PvE-Holy in 4.0.6

[AlucardzBelmont]

Greetings to all,

[Firstly I apologize for the lack of links in this post as this is my 1st one on these forums and aren't allowed to add links as of yet. I will edit this post accordingly as my privileges increase later on]

I haven't found any posts that focus on - what I believe is the most crucial priest change in 4.0.6 - the PW:S buff described by the patch notes as:

•The mana cost of Power Word: Shield has been increased by approximately 31%, but its effect has been increased by 208%.

Current state of PW:S

Currently PW:S is a no-brainer for PvE-Disc specs and considered as ineffective mana-wise for Holy. Not only that, a Holy-spec which uses 2/2 Improved PW:S to try and improve the spell is still stuck with a 3 sec CD for it. Trying to make PW:S a 1 sec CD spell as Holy will force you to loose either or all of:

• 3% Haste from Darkness
• 60 sec CD reduction on Shadowfiend from Veiled Shadows
• Speed boost & poison cleansing from Body and Soul
• Chakra state extension through State of Mind

The importance and priority of the above listed benefits vary depending on your play style, however it's generally agreed upon that State of Mind is a must with the current 30 duration of Chakra. This however, is no longer the case in 4.0.6:

•Chakra states now last 1 minute, up from 30 seconds.

The biggest feedback from the community about the change is that there is no longer any benefit from 2/2 State of Mind.

PW:S in 4.0.6 as Holy

Theoretical Spec: 10/31/0

Disc Tree --> 2/2 Imp. PW:S & 2/2 Soul Warding
Holy Tree --> All obvious choices except no State of Mind and no Body & Soul

Prime Glyphs --> Prayer of Healing, PW:S & Renew

Note: The biggest loss glyph-wise is replacing Glyph of Lightwell (considered a must for raiding) with PW:S

Conclusion

Starting 4.0.6 the only way (so far) to bring back PW:S in the Holy rotation is to loose:

1. 3% haste --> Harder to get Haste capped
2. 60 sec CD to Shadowfiend --> Back to 5 min CD instead of 4 min
3. Body & Soul --> Personally I view this more or a PvP oriented talent but it has saved some butt in PvE
4. State of Mind --> Won't be a big deal as of 4.0.6 due to Chakra lasting for 1 min instead of 30 sec
5. Glyph of Lightwell --> Many swear by it for raids... Maybe this spec is best for heroics?

Discussion questions

1. Will it be worth it?
   
2. How valid / effective will it be to have both Holy AND Disc priests in a raid using the newly buffed PW:S?

Anyone on the PTR willing to try this out and give feedback would be a nice plus for this thread.

/bow

[Kelesti]

It seems this thread was lost in the jumble of things awaiting... something. I don't know.

But let's try this one again.

[[-Spiritus-]]

While I'd have to do math to be certain, I think what kills this for holy is:

(1) Spiritual Healing does not affect PW:S [99% sure of this].
(2) Holy's mastery does not affect PW:S.
(3) No Chakra state boosts PW:S.
(4) Renew should be better HPM in Sanctuary in 4.0.6 [will have to math this to be certain].
(5) PW:S will be even more expensive of a cast, even though it will have better HPM & HPS than currently. Spamming still will not be an option.
(6) I cannot see a justification for holy to perform x2 or more consecutive PW:S casts for the purpose of healing.
(7) The only justification for holy to cast x2 or more consecutive PW:S casts is for B&S, which you suggest to leave out of the spec.

While casting PW:S in 4.0.6 may be occasionally worth it for holy to use as a buffer for a charged heal, I can never see a justification for holy to spec Imp PW:S & SW, especially at the cost of B&S.

[Syrrah]

the only reason to use PW:S as holy is for B&S, which you leave out so...

[louisvictory]

They just re-nerfed PW:S
There goes your theory... Jan 12th Patch Notes --- PW:S change has been reverted... GG

[[-Spiritus-]]

They just re-nerfed PW:S
There goes your theory... Jan 12th Patch Notes --- PW:S change has been reverted... GG

Imp PW:S is not the same as PW:S. Good try at a troll, however.

[Methusa]

:-(... The Imp PW:S buff was too good to be true, *sigh*

[Marraphy]

You had me scared for a moment there... It said they reverted the "Improved PW:S" buff, not PW:S. I kinda agree- it felt really OP, the spell buff was good enough.

And they gave us even more dispel/silence/interrupt resistance. Hurray Disc tanks!

[AlucardzBelmont]

Kelesti thanks for bringing this post back up, I was wondering where it disappeared to ^^

While I'd have to do math to be certain, I think what kills this for holy is:

(1) Spiritual Healing does not affect PW:S [99% sure of this].
(2) Holy's mastery does not affect PW:S.
(3) No Chakra state boosts PW:S.
(4) Renew should be better HPM in Sanctuary in 4.0.6 [will have to math this to be certain].
(5) PW:S will be even more expensive of a cast, even though it will have better HPM & HPS than currently. Spamming still will not be an option.
(6) I cannot see a justification for holy to perform x2 or more consecutive PW:S casts for the purpose of healing.
(7) The only justification for holy to cast x2 or more consecutive PW:S casts is for B&S, which you suggest to leave out of the spec.

While casting PW:S in 4.0.6 may be occasionally worth it for holy to use as a buffer for a charged heal, I can never see a justification for holy to spec Imp PW:S & SW, especially at the cost of B&S.

(1) Wow, that's a bummer. Why wouldn't it be though? Weird...
(2) True. EoL will only apply to the 20% the glyph provides, which is nothing really.
(3) True.
(4) Regarding the math, you can find the exact numbers from the EJ forums. I'll paste them for convenience (These values are for 4.0.6):

Renew5 = 7.99 HPM (up from 5.99)
PW:S = 4.7 HPM (up from 2.96)

Interestingly, taking the 2/2 imp PW:S talent bumps PW:S further to 5.17 HPM. And taking it one step further to include the PW:S prime glyph including the EoL hot, PW:S can attain 6.37 HPM

So technically, according to these preliminary number crunching, PW:S might just be closer to renew HPM wise (but not better it seems) as long you're willing to sacrifice Glyph of Lightwell. We'll have to wait till more solid numbers come up, but the math seems good AFAIK.

(5) Yeah I too doubt that spamming it will be a valid option compared to the other options that we have. Which is a good reason actually not to take Soul Warding and maybe put the points back into B&S?
(6) True.
(7) I seem to have underestimated the value of B&S for PvE. There's always the option of dropping rapid renewal & desperate prayer if B&S is more important, but personally I find the 4 sec 60% speed boost very situational and would prefer spending 2 points on talents that are beneficial overall. Just my 2 cents. Are there are particular raid fights where B&S is a huge help?

Concerning the reverted change, it's Imp PW:S that was reverted, not PW:S itself - thankfully!

[[-Spiritus-]]

Are there are particular raid fights where B&S is a huge help?!

Any fight that has some sort of movement mechanic where an individual [or two] or you must move to avoid something bad happening. In T11, this seems to be a fairly regular mechanic. That is not even considering emergency uses where someone goofs, or creative uses like quicker tank positioning.

[AlucardzBelmont]

(1) Spiritual Healing does not affect PW:S [99% sure of this].

Actually it seems that it does. At least wowwiki and wowpedia seem to say so... Unless they're talking about the old version of Spiritual Healing pre-Cata. Hmm...

# [Spiritual Healing] increase the amount absorbed by the shield.

Can anyone else confirm / deny this with other sources? Need to find out.

[Danner]

Are there are particular raid fights where B&S is a huge help?

Magmaw: Getting out of the lava burst thingy fast enough. I usually cast it a few seconds before. Helps on a laggy network as I usually only have around 0.8 seconds to react otherwise.
Omnitron: Helping marked players get away before the laser turn into a flamethrower on magmatron
Maloriak: Not really much use. May help to speed up debuffed people who are slow at moving, but not really needed.
Chimaeron: Not really much use, not really something you want to blow mana on. Potentially useful when gathering up.
Artraedes: Amazing / must have in the air phase. Great for getting the firebreath target out of the way.
Nefarian: Can't say.
Council of the winds: Useful when changing platforms, but not mandatory. Saved me a from being on the wrong platform during the ultimates a few times, but arguably a L2P issue.
Al'akir: I don't know how people who don't have this survive. It's downright godly to have at this point, bith for personal movement and helping others get out of trouble.
Halfus: Not really useful here, it's mostly a tank&spank fight anyway.
Theralion/Valiona: Really good for getting out of a fire breath. Also: put on debuffed people.
Twilight council: Really simplifies the lightning marker, makes it LOTS easier to get the correct debuff in time. Awesome utility here.
Cho'gall: Not really that useful, but when the tank suddenly speeds off outside your healing range to get the adds away, getting back in fast is great.
Sinestra: Can't really say.