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  1. #1

    Does GS smell better because Blizzard named it iLvl?

    Seriously, I remember all the QQ about Gearscore and it feels like ilvl has arrived relatively unscathed. With that aside, I'm going to admit now that I liked gearscore and I like ilvl but they both miss the point of what we, as raid organizers, really need; we need a way to assess the individual ability of our raid and some way to sum that up to a raid view to understand if we have the heal/dps/avoidance/cc/interrupts to perform.
    In my mind, Blizzard really missed the boat with ilvl. They took gearscore which was helpful but only marginally so, and they replicated it.

    Instead of gearscore, what I'd really like to know is how well the individual did the last time they faced this boss. In absence of that data I'd like to know how well that individual did in heroics. Maybe average dps, number of wipes, number of completed instances, cc, etc. Maybe even a user ranking system with user comments. Is there a mod out there that does that?

  2. #2
    The Patient Manapaws's Avatar
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    I really like average iLvl. Compared to Gearscore, it's a very simple and reasonable way to judge based on gear.

    Honestly, things are difficult enough in Cataclysm that your first stop should be: Do they have the gear to get through this content (properly gemmed and enchanted included)? Second should be their experience.

    It's not like WOTLK where you could get a 5.6k GS Mage in the raid who was better than your 6k GS Mage. Gear plays a huge, huge role in performance right now.
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  3. #3
    The Insane Rivin's Avatar
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    I would think that AIL is more accepted because it's official, yes. GearScore was better, though, especially near the end of its reign when it properly weighted stats and checked for proper gemming/enchanting and took those into account for its score.

    Having some sort of character overview would be pretty nice, though. Elitist Groups did something like that, didn't it?

  4. #4
    playerscore, does everything a player can do, enchants, cloth-plate, gems, *approprite stuff/BiS!
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  5. #5
    Herald of the Titans Kilpi's Avatar
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    Blizzard named GS iLvl? I thought iLvl was old thing and GS was based on that.. Silly me.

    ---------- Post added 2011-01-17 at 11:58 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by the lich knough View Post
    playerscore, does everything a player can do, enchants, cloth-plate, gems, *approprite stuff/BiS!
    'Say whaT?

  6. #6
    Average ilvl is a crock of shit, as bad as gearscore was at its worst.

    The new battle.net armory has a neat little audit function though that checks if a player is full enchanted and glyphed and using his profession perks. It's not perfect but can weed out the biggest slackers.

  7. #7
    Neither GS or ilvl are good enough to determine how good a player is. But for lack of a better way it's what we have to use. Combining gear with one's achievements will be the best way to try and determine someone's level of skill or experience without actually running with them. There is no mod that does this, but it isn't hard to do a quick look over yourself especially now since you only have to fill a 10 man as a PuG raid leader.

  8. #8
    The Insane Rivin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilpi View Post
    Blizzard named GS iLvl? I thought iLvl was old thing and GS was based on that.. Silly me.
    It's technically "Average Item Level" but the character panel only shows "Item Level" so that's what people call it. AIL is a more accurate term.

  9. #9
    Herald of the Titans Kilpi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeabeastRivin View Post
    It's technically "Average Item Level" but the character panel only shows "Item Level" so that's what people call it. AIL is a more accurate term.
    O'rly? Still, iLvl is old thing.

  10. #10
    Scarab Lord Nicola's Avatar
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    With ilvl u can cheat, with gs u couldnt.
    I rather have a noob with 6k gs in full pvp instead of a guy with 350ilvl thats wearing greens.

  11. #11
    Blues have discussed this.

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    We’d love to implement (and have some long-term plans that include) better ways to detect if you know what you’re doing other than just the gear you’ve accumulated.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2053469

  12. #12
    Both are rather poor measures.
    The blizzard implementation even having substantial flaws itself in taking into account gear in your bags at the time which can and often will inflate the score above that of what you may have equipped.

  13. #13
    Ilvl is better because it differs by very small amounts. Pretty much full epics is around 364, mostly blues and a few epics is 355ish, full blues is under 345 and lower.

    Or maybe that's just my opinion. All of the sudden I can't think of an actual reason why the smaller numbers are better, it just seems tidier.

    It's still kinda lame, but it's better. GS was weird, the way it calculated numbers as being, like, 500 more than their actual ilvl. It was like a 264 item was like 500.

    Oh, wait, I know why it's better - it's an average. Averages are way cooler than sums!

  14. #14
    The Lightbringer shadowkras's Avatar
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    Blizzard needs to add ingame armory, thats all.
    People take stupidity to a whole new level when they sit in front of a computer.

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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by praide View Post
    Seriously, I remember all the QQ about Gearscore and it feels like ilvl has arrived relatively unscathed. With that aside, I'm going to admit now that I liked gearscore and I like ilvl but they both miss the point of what we, as raid organizers, really need; we need a way to assess the individual ability of our raid and some way to sum that up to a raid view to understand if we have the heal/dps/avoidance/cc/interrupts to perform.
    In my mind, Blizzard really missed the boat with ilvl. They took gearscore which was helpful but only marginally so, and they replicated it.

    Instead of gearscore, what I'd really like to know is how well the individual did the last time they faced this boss. In absence of that data I'd like to know how well that individual did in heroics. Maybe average dps, number of wipes, number of completed instances, cc, etc. Maybe even a user ranking system with user comments. Is there a mod out there that does that?
    No, you're missing the point of iLvl. It isn't meant to be a rating system like GearScore, it is simply meant to gate access to dungeons/raids based on the best gear you have available to you. Sure, it can be gamed, but that was covered in a different post. As that post said (by a blue), the people smart enough to game the system also are probably smart enough to know whether they should or should not be in a heroic in the first place. I've been in a heroic with a healer who gamed it, and did great. I;ve been in heroics with dps who did great. Also had enough that sucked to make me question why it is allowed.

    At the end of the day, if you want to judge people, install PlayerScore, or go armory every person to verify that their "equipped" AIL meets your requirements (yes, armory makes this distinction though the in-game UI does not). If you only care if they can zone in, use iLvl.
    Last edited by Tyraena; 2011-01-17 at 10:13 PM.

  16. #16
    The Lightbringer Azerox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowkras View Post
    Blizzard needs to add ingame armory, thats all.
    This.

    Like the mobile armory, but then ingame. (yes alttab, but not everyone wants/knows or even can bc of slow pc)

  17. #17
    GS had the potential to become a good add-on people just abused it, asking for like 5k gs for heroic back in wrath. but either way watever blizzard add your gonna get some guy who comes along and abuses it asking for a ridcoulous ilvl for something

  18. #18
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    GS was actually better, at least with GS you had to actually wear the cloth healing gear you ninja'd as a Fury Warrior so that anyone could see it.

    Now all you have to do is have it in your bags and Blizzard congratulates you for being "sneaky"

  19. #19
    Then as a raid leader you of all people should know that you can't "assess" ANYONE by their ilvl or gearscore, as they don't pertain to a players skill.

  20. #20
    A few years ago, I had the idea that Blizzard should implement a built-in mechanic that would measure player performance, similar to how certain hard-mode achievements work today. Something like this:

    At the beginning of a random LFD dungeon run, each player starts out with zero (0) points. Over the course of the dungeon, points are awarded or deducted from each player based on their actual performance, such as:

    Points AWARDED for things like:
    Killing blows
    Dispells
    1st and 2nd in dps on boss fights
    Casting interrupts
    Staying in group till dungeon completion
    etc...

    Points DEDUCTED for things like:
    Breaking cc (does not count against tanks)
    Standing in bad stuff for more than a second or two
    Getting hit by something that is tracking you that you are supposed to be running away from
    Abandoning group
    etc...

    At the end of the run, a pop-up shows your performance, and what you did right/wrong, with a score of say +14 or -8, or whatever. Perhaps you could get "bonus" ponts for doing something perfectly on one run. Those scores could be averaged over all your runs, and could be displayed like an achievement score on an inspect. Players who tended to do very well would be rewarded with a positive score.

    A mechanic like this could also have great potential for raids, where instead of hard-modes, a raid would have access to better loot tables with higher scores. I unfortunately could never figure out a good way to work the scoring for healers though...

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