our heals...

[TobyKenobi]

Having our HPS numbers below paladin is one thing... but don't forget. They give absorbs, and we don't. Not only are they healing for more they are also reducing damage taken. Thats practically a 10% bonus to all their heals (base).

[Montesquieu]

if the raid wipes as a result of a lack of healing - yes
if there's a decison between a Shaman and another class for a raidspot on encounters where every hps counts - yes

The Paladins on the 10H fights had around 5-10 % Healing Done with protector. 50-75% overhealing.
I do around 50-65% Overhealing with our totally reliable Earthliving, ~50% with my healing Stream totem, etc.
And my Glyph of Healing Wave (does almost the same as your Protector) does, on average, 72,8% overheal.

Me: No Cooldowns for tanks, every buff a totem brings is also available through other classes (especially in 25 man raids), Manatide + NS/SWG as selfbuffs
You: Hands of Sacrifice, Hand of Protection, Hand of Salvation, Guardian, Lay on Hands, Aura Mastery + various Self-Buffs, like Divine Favor, Divine Plea and Avenging Wrath ... BoK/BoM with other classes

Please don't talk about utility...

Since almost all AE dmg is predictable, Holy Radiance/Light of Down are at least en par with HR/CH

Please start raiding and gather some experience before you start posting as a paladin in the shaman forum.
Thanks

You forget, Mana Tide Totem is not a self buff. It applies to a whole party. That is the single most important cooldown you guys have, and I'd trade LoH/BoP/GoAK for that. Five people benefit from a (soon-to-be) 400% spirit boost. And the cooldown is a mere 3 minutes, allowing for at least 2 usages in most fights. You don't have cooldowns for the tank, but you bring in a flat 10% damage reduction buff. On top of that, our mana return MSs our healing done by 50% for a whopping 15 seconds, yet only returns 15% mana (4.0.6 changes this to 9s MS... woo)

According to some 25H parses, around 30-35% of shammy healing is overhealing. Yet when you look at healadins, you see ours is anywhere between 40-50% overhealing. BoL/our mastery (absorb = healing let's say)/LoD/HR/PotI make up 60% of our heals. Ouch. You guys are more way more efficient than us. Part of a shaman's utility is their diverse range of duplicated buffs. I bring BoK/BoM and one aura of my choice, BoK is replicated by Mark, so BoM is our only true "unique" buff. Between your four totems, you can cover Resistance Aura, bring in Battle Shout, provide a SP buff, and give 10% melee haste. Those're constant effects, and that's only your general use totems (and some other ones you guys can swap in). You also have grounding, earthbind, etc. They beat our 30% raid damage transferred to us up to our HP, which can kill us without Divine Shield, 5 minute cooldown melee protection buff, 7 minute oh crap heal, and 10% threat reduction. While you guys bring general utility, we bring utility that only works in dire situations, which generally foreshadows a wipe.

Healing wave glyphed is *not* the same as PotI, ours procs off of any direct heals, which is the majority of our heals asides from LoD/HR. On one log, Healing Wave made up a whopping 3.7% of their total healing done. That accounts for only ~2.75% of your overhealing. Wow, that's so inefficient! ~5% of our overhealing is from PotI, a core talent. BoL is 63% overhealing and accounts for ~12%. 7.56% overhealing. Just from 2 skills, we have around 12-13% overhealing.

As for your last comment, perhaps I've raided before? Maybe I rerolled a paladin in anticipation for Cataclysm and have a previous character I've raided on? =) The reason I'm even bothering to post here is because a shaman directed his post at the "OPness/unfairness" of our heals.

[Merin]

Sadly, balanced around mana tide.

@Montesquieu "Don't nerf me, bro!"

[Montesquieu]

Honestly? Holy paladins are still slightly too good in some fights. I'll admit that. Yet, there are also fights where resto shammys and holy priests are the best as well. Will there ever be true balance from fight to fight? Normal != heroic. Everyone and their mother rerolled holy paladins after they realized how ridiculously OP they were at the start of the expac.

[DarthQQ]

What i dislike about healing in general at the moment, is that everything feels like its several times slowed compared to wotlk healing. Theres no adrenalin, theres no urge to smash buttons. Spam the cheapest spell > change to a more time - efficient spell > end cycle. Boooooooring.

You, sir, clearly don't know how to heal.

---------- Post added 2011-01-20 at 09:31 AM ----------

Having our HPS numbers below paladin is one thing... but don't forget. They give absorbs, and we don't. Not only are they healing for more they are also reducing damage taken. Thats practically a 10% bonus to all their heals (base).

That Mastery is so useless.

[Deleted]

The 10% damage reduction "cooldown" is also brought by priests don't forget Montesquieu, hardly a shammy specific buff. Oh and it's only physical, so only useful on the tanks.

Also in the above comparisons comparing disc priest performance on Halfus is not really fair as Atonement is insane on Halfus.

[Takoshell]

I like some of the elitists in this thread.

From what I have experienced, (Before I start, I'm doing heroics, I haven't done a raid yet in Cata, So don't go all pompous asshole on me )

I end up having to waste my mana on DPS that has a fetish for the damaging AoE on the ground. Although we usually complete the heroics, I do have some events where I end up using all my mana up on a what should be an 2-3 minute fight that ends up being a 4-5 minute fight because of the lack of DPS. I don't know if this is just heroics...or if this happens in raids to...or that I might just be a somewhat bad healer.

[Montesquieu]

The 10% damage reduction "cooldown" is also brought by priests don't forget Montesquieu, hardly a shammy specific buff. Oh and it's only physical, so only useful on the tanks.

Also in the above comparisons comparing disc priest performance on Halfus is not really fair as Atonement is insane on Halfus.

I never said it was a cooldown. I never said it was shaman specific. I implied that it was of use to tanks. Giving essential-ish buffs to one class/spec is bad design, so it makes sense to have at least two classes with access to Ancestral Fortitude/Inspiration.

[Mudkiper]

paladins are still mainly tankhealers.

What? Do you even raid.. ?