Tier 11 Disc Vs Holy, come help the fight

[TiduZ]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1869256766

This post describes why the 4 piece for priests is horribly unbalanced for discipline vs holy.

please voice your thoughts and bump this thread so maybe it will get fixed and disc priests will have a reason to go 4 pc.

[Bigslick]

Just a heads-up, putting "BLUE response pls" in the thread title historically has the result of only drawing one type of blue response: "Please don't ask for blue responses in your thread title."

[[-Spiritus-]]

Yeah, I think I'll keep my clean streak of never posting on non-Alpha/Beta official boards. Nothing good can come of that thread that the developers don't already know.

[Nørf]

Quoting from the post on US forums:

My suggestions have been as thus:

4 piece
*When you cast penance, you gain 540 spirit for 15 seconds.
*When you cast inner focus, you gain 540 spirit for 50 seconds.

Just thought the inner focus one was very funny.

On topic though, yeah 2 part bonus is total shit, disc four part could use a buff but it's the first tier set, they never had any impressive set bonuses.

Side note; you seem like one spoiled kid.

[Kelesti]

Side note; you seem like one spoiled kid.

It's TiduZ, what do you expect? At least he's made it out the door from Shield Spamming, I had my concerns that the "top" Discipline Priest would have issues adapting.

it's the first tier set, they never had any impressive set

And this pretty much sums it up. It's not meant to be held onto much at all, really.

Though, to change the idea, it could be "when your Penance heals a target with Grace". Suddenly, you're not limited by Strength of Soul and/or Haste.

[Bigslick]

Though, to change the idea, it could be "when your Penance heals a target with Grace".

May as well still call it "when you heal with Penance," though, since the first tick would apply grace and the subsequent ticks would be penance healing a target with grace.

[[-Spiritus-]]

The only problem w/ grace as the qualifier is that grace is an "optional" talent, whereas Chakra for holy is damn near mandatory. I'm not a fan of linking it to penance at all, since it isn't always best to pop it on CD, whereas it is always a good idea to be in a Chakra state.

To make it samey-samey, they should either link it to IF for Disc, or keep it as Penance [sans WS qualifier] and switch the activation to CoH for holy. [Or, if they wish to keep WS as the qualifier, add a renew qualifier for CoH for holy (the target of CoH always gets the heal); which sounds silly, but that proves the point on how restrictive the activation is for disc].

Personally, I think they'll modify it before 4.0.6 lands. Its too blatant to miss.

[Deleted]

i cant reply on us forum , but here is my suggestion
"Each time your Rapture proc' you gain 540 Spirit for ~20 - 30 sec"

[jamesx]

More likely to get this nerfed for Holy priests than buffed for Disc priests! Other classes have the same deal as Disc priests - i.e. Riptide (IIRC) procs it for shamans.

For it to be fair to every class, they'd have to make it like Solace trinket and proc off everything... but then you'd be wearing T11 at Deathwing.

[Dediatha]

I just looked at the other healers 4p bonus, and they all seem very similar. The one glaring difference, and the one difference that most people are upset about, is that we HAVE to have a certain debuff on a person in order to use another spell in order to gain the buff.

To quote someone else in the thread on the wow forums, since I think they said it fairly well:

Nobody was suggesting that penance shouldn't be used; rather, the point was that penance requiring being applied to a target with WS immediately on CD to maintain the 4pc bonus is problematic due to (a) it not always being the best time to use it; (b) the possibility of WS falling off right as you're casting Penance due to another heal received by the target from a different disc priest specced SoS.

And Norf, thank you for quoting me! Makes me feel special. That Inner Focus gem came from suggestions other people had made on this forum, if you've been following the tier topics, and really I don't see why it's funny. I know I cast IF on CD, and casting GHeal helps lower the CD on it anyway. It'd be VERY similar to the holy version of the bonus.

How exactly is it spoiled to want our tier bonus to be in line with not only holy, but with all the healers. No one else would have their bonus messed up because you didn't cast your penance (or whatever their class specific spell would be) on the proper person with the proper debuff at the proper time.

[Kelesti]

It's still not in line with Shaman who may want to hold a Riptide, or a Paladin with Holy Radiance either.

If anything, it's the Druid and Holy Priest model that are out of sync.

[Dediatha]

It's still not in line with Shaman who may want to hold a Riptide, or a Paladin with Holy Radiance either.

If anything, it's the Druid and Holy Priest model that are out of sync.

But it's still only 1 spell for them to cast. Take out the WS on the tier set, and leave the buff time the way it is if they must. We still might want to hold on to our penance a few extra seconds, that's not a big deal. It's the fact that we can lock ourselves out of the buff completely if we are not careful for chunks of time.

[Ayonel]

I agree with the OP. My issue is simple: if you're running atonement, you likely almost never use Heal. The 2 pc bonus should extend to Smite and/or GHeal. I'm not worried about the 4 pc since I'll probably never see it, but it also seems a bit contrived.

The set bonus' for disc contradict Blizzard's argument that disc is designed so it can be played in a variety of ways when in order to trigger or benefit from the bonus you have to play in a very specific way.

[harky]

Let's see...

4pT10: 5% to PW:S (80%+ of your healing), 10% to CoH (<15% of your healing)
3x better for Disc? Balanced.

4pT8: +250 SP for 5s after PW:S
Useless as Holy? Balanced.

Disc gets either equal, or as low as 83% out of the bonus as Holy. Gross imbalance, clearly. We've never seen sets that favor a spec before. Evar. Oh wait... they almost always favor a spec if the same set is used for multiple specs. T7 and T9 PoM bonuses gave Holy a disproportional buff as well. Heresy!

[Dediatha]

Let's see...

4pT10: 5% to PW:S (80%+ of your healing), 10% to CoH (<15% of your healing)
3x better for Disc? Balanced.

4pT8: +250 SP for 5s after PW:S
Useless as Holy? Balanced.

Disc gets either equal, or as low as 83% out of the bonus as Holy. Gross imbalance, clearly. We've never seen sets that favor a spec before. Evar. Oh wait... they almost always favor a spec if the same set is used for multiple specs. T7 and T9 PoM bonuses gave Holy a disproportional buff as well. Heresy!

I don't know why it has to be said so many times. We're not talking about what the bonus GIVES us or who the bonus is good for. We're talking about how to get the buff active. It's clunky and not in line with any of the other healers. Each healer can trigger their buff with 1 spell and don't run the risk of locking themselves out if something goes wrong. The buff could be 4.9384328 seconds long or 56 million seconds long, as long as it is triggered from something that doesn't force us to play a certain way, I'll be happy.

[harky]

You mean being forced to use a spell that's great to activate a bonus that's great is bad?

You may as well argue that Holy Priests that don't want to use Chakra are disadvantaged by the 4pT11 set as well.

It 'has to be said so many times' because it's a load of crap. You're being rewarded for casting a spell that you should already have been casting. There is no issue here. Paladins are 'required' to use Holy Radiance for theirs. Druids are 'required' to stack LBx3 for theirs. Shaman are 'required' to use Riptide on cooldown for theirs. Holy Priests are 'required' to use Chakra for theirs. Get over it. All the healers are 'required' to do things they already do. In exchange they get a Spirit buff.

[Dediatha]

You mean being forced to use a spell that's great to activate a bonus that's great is bad?

You may as well argue that Holy Priests that don't want to use Chakra are disadvantaged by the 4pT11 set as well.

It 'has to be said so many times' because it's a load of crap. You're being rewarded for casting a spell that you should already have been casting. There is no issue here. Paladins are 'required' to use Holy Radiance for theirs. Druids are 'required' to stack LBx3 for theirs. Shaman are 'required' to use Riptide on cooldown for theirs. Holy Priests are 'required' to use Chakra for theirs. Get over it. All the healers are 'required' to do things they already do. In exchange they get a Spirit buff.

You seem to be really dense, and I'm sorry you are. You seem to be FAILING greatly to see the point. If I were to cast penance on a target without weakened soul, I'm now locked out of getting the buff. No other healers have that sort of worry. NONE of them do, except disc. Why is that difficult for you to understand?

[Zeuq]

I don't know why it has to be said so many times. We're not talking about what the bonus GIVES us or who the bonus is good for. We're talking about how to get the buff active. It's clunky and not in line with any of the other healers. Each healer can trigger their buff with 1 spell and don't run the risk of locking themselves out if something goes wrong. The buff could be 4.9384328 seconds long or 56 million seconds long, as long as it is triggered from something that doesn't force us to play a certain way, I'll be happy.

Wait... what's wrong with Blizzard forcing you to play a certain way? That's what your talents do. This is no different. If you want the bonus, you play a certain way, and if you don't want it, you don't have to.

The problem here is people are looking at one part of a whole and claiming it's imbalanced rather than looking at the whole picture. It's hard to say since I raid as Holy and we don't have a Disc Priest, but maybe Blizzard doesn't think Discipline needs the regen as much or they want to reward you for single target healing, which is where Disc seems to excel. Maybe they think Holy equally needs a little bit more buff from it in general, particularly since that set bonus was designed when Holy Concentration was still 20%.

Either way, Disc is getting buffs in other ways, so let's perhaps reserve judgment on these sorts of things until we see how the coming changes play out.

[harky]

You seem to be really dense, and I'm sorry you are. You seem to be FAILING greatly to see the point. If I were to cast penance on a target without weakened soul, I'm now locked out of getting the buff. No other healers have that sort of worry. NONE of them do, except disc. Why is that difficult for you to understand?

I'm sorry that you're required to play like a Discipline Priest when you play a Discipline Priest. I really am...

[TiduZ]

It's TiduZ, what do you expect? At least he's made it out the door from Shield Spamming, I had my concerns that the "top" Discipline Priest would have issues adapting.

And this pretty much sums it up. It's not meant to be held onto much at all, really.

Though, to change the idea, it could be "when your Penance heals a target with Grace". Suddenly, you're not limited by Strength of Soul and/or Haste.

Actually I am still shield spamming and I am still #1 hps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOk2lNb8ToM