[Priest] PvE Discipline Priest Guide

[Kelesti]

Sorry Spiritus, until further notice I'm stealing your sticky tag.

[[-Spiritus-]]

Sorry Spiritus, until further notice I'm stealing your sticky tag.

Rules is rules.

[Deleted]

On HM our guild actually runs two Disc priests to rotate barrier for each fued. This alone makes disc viable. However, in a 10m setting, just Have your holy priest precast LW 30sec-1min before you pull, then Drop PW:B for 1st fued, use LW for second fued, PW:B for third, then LW for 4th. If you are still having issues on the non-barrier fueds, you can parse out your Tranq & two hymns for the one you need it the most. Also, if one of your tanks is a paladin, he can use Raidwall for one.

Remember you have 15seconds to get people up, which is a considerable amount of time. On normal mode, PW:B makes this threshold a joke and LW should more than cover fued 2 & 4. If not, use a big healing CD for each one [(1)hymn, (2)hymn, (3)tranq, (4)tree/PI], or something like that.

Thank you for a swift response, I´ll do my best to convince the rest of my Raid, that I can remain as Disc

[Folius]

First off, I want to thank you Spiritus for making this guide, having to reroll priest mid-tier was difficult but this guide helped alot along the way, so thanks. : )

Secondly, I want to ask why this was unstickied. It's full of extremely helpful and pertinent information for anyone new to disc. It's better than anything found on the main forums or on EJ.

[[-Spiritus-]]

First off, I want to thank you Spiritus for making this guide, having to reroll priest mid-tier was difficult but this guide helped alot along the way, so thanks. : )

Thank you for reading! I'm glad you found it useful.

Secondly, I want to ask why this was unstickied. It's full of extremely helpful and pertinent information for anyone new to disc. It's better than anything found on the main forums or on EJ.

I'll leave that question to the mods.

[Kelesti]

Secondly, I want to ask why this was unstickied. It's full of extremely helpful and pertinent information for anyone new to disc. It's better than anything found on the main forums or on EJ.

We have "too many" stickies cluttering the top, apparently. At least, that's what I was told, and asked to find a way to clean it up. So I permalinked it into a guides sticky, and did the same with the "state of" stickies, so that we went from 8 down to 4. If you have a better solution, please Tell me, so I can look at putting it into place.

[dalicia]

I have a two part question.

This is more of a theoretical look than a practical one.

Do you think this has a situational role where three healers for 10man normal-mode is overkill, and having the .5 healer/damage would be more beneficial than having three healers? The situational fights that I see having a potentially low dps/hps would be Mag/Omni/Malor/Half, where three healers can be unnecessary, and the additional low end damage would be more beneficial to the boss kill. I ask because I am in a small guild that does not carry "back-ups" in which the third healer would be replaced completely for a dpser, nor do any of the three healers have been raid geared to pull 15k+ dps. And, we are looking for a viable option between now (healers w/o raid-ready OS dps) and later (healers w/ raid-ready OS dps).

Assuming:
(1) 5stack Evangelism
(2) 22% HST raid buffed
(3) 15% CRIT raid buffed
(4) 9000SP
(5) Eschewing MST

The above in mind, I am trying to figure out how the model gear would look like. I can easily find the raid buff crit/haste stats. However, I am falling short of the 9k spell power. Additionally, I'm sorry but I do not understand "eschewing" means.

On the side, I wondered if you would think of adding in pieces that would be key for Disc (all three role specs) to help give an idea of model pieces to look for. Other than that, thank you so much for the guide. You present the information in a format that is easy to understand, and your follow-up replies are as equally helpful to further iron out the details.

[Bigslick]

==================================================
4.0.6 Disc Tank Healer Spec & Stats
==================================================

SPEC: 33/8/0 http://wowtal.com/#k=ve6pjb-c.aei.priest.-ub2dz

Speaking as a disc priest who is generally assigned as a primary tank healer in my 10-man raids, I'll just say first off that we are in a fantastic position when it comes to tank healing. In general I have an easier time keeping my target tank alive than my pally healing counterpart with his tank while offering comparable general (and better critical) raid support, with all of us being similarly geared (regardless of which tank we're each assigned to, and without him beaconing my tank target, so negating those differentiators).

I do want to comment on one small talent allocation here I disagree with, and that's the placement of a full three points into IS. While one is required to advance to later talents (at least for a tank-focused build), there are - at least in my experience - very few fights of concern where the other two points would not be better invested into FW. You lose 4% overall spell damage mitigation under IF and 4% movement speed under IW, but given that nearly any incoming damage - including physical - under a boss fight will cover 10% of your health, FW seems to move very quickly and very far ahead of IS in overall mitigation, stepping up to 20% total in a number of situations. I wouldn't be blind to changing my perspective if this were proven otherwise (not a math person, haven't crunched the numbers), but would be very surprised if IS > FW.

In terms of prime glyphs, I'd also like to suggest that the value of glyph of PW:B grows and that of PoH diminishes both in isolative and in relative values as you look from a 10- to 25-man scenario, with the reverse holding true as you move from 25- to 10-man, so glyph selection between those two take raid size heavily into consideration. Glyph of PoH will be stronger in 10-man raiding in nearly every situation. Then again, with the incoming changes to PW:B I see this as becoming useful in only extremely situational fights for 25-man if at all.

[Deleted]

The trouble with Focussed Will is that it's a 10/20% damage reduction on the NEXT incoming damage, and it does nothing to help the damage you just took.

With most damage pulses the buff will have dropped off by the time of the next one, and unlike the Holy tree's equivalent there's no buff to healing yourself back up. 6% constant, always-on reduction is much more beneficial in my book.

[Bigslick]

The trouble with Focussed Will is that it's a 10/20% damage reduction on the NEXT incoming damage, and it does nothing to help the damage you just took.

With most damage pulses the buff will have dropped off by the time of the next one, and unlike the Holy tree's equivalent there's no buff to healing yourself back up. 6% constant, always-on reduction is much more beneficial in my book.

The difference is 4% versus 10-20%, since you'd only have to drop from 6% to 2% when picking up FW. 4% more 'always on' certainly helps, but the number of times it will be lifesaving is far fewer than the number of times where the 10% or 20% stacked from FW comes into play. Yes you have to take that first piece of damage, but that happens frequently enough where it is followed by another strike within the buff period. I certainly am not arguing against the value of IS, just that I see FW making the difference more often in keeping alive.

Edit -- just checked a recent run we logged in BWD and reported uptime for FW ranged from 9% to 22% on the bosses I healed as disc. That doesn't of course say how many attacks were received during the buff, but it's fairly realistic to say that many instances of incoming damage were under the buff. Also worth remembering that FW affects physical damage too (such as Halfus's roar).

[Deleted]

Eschewing =avoid.

Awesome guide btw, atm im using mastery stacked gear with 50-60% healing done with shields. Do you think it would be beneficial for me to reforge some mastery to haste (18.27 mastery, 45% stronger absorbs, 4,5% haste unbuffed). My guild has been trying on valiona 25 man hc for one raid, using 2 holy priests, 1 pala, 1 shaman and 1 druid.

Also atm im trading my pi on cd with our balance druids inervate on cd, is that worth it, im thinking like this: im loosing hps by doing this but as i can keep up a slight higher hps for a longer time (higher then without the inervate) compared to burst out insane hps with the pi either poh spamming or shield spamming with iw. also the blance druid is gaining some dps by getting the pi. am i missing something or is this correct?

[CaseyTheRetard]

I finally got around to double-checking the math for the "crit priest vs. haste priest" problem as it is used in the discussion of tank healing. All work is saved in this Google spreadsheet for evaluation and reference. Disclaimer:

I am in no way attacking Spiritus' work, only helping to polish it. The amount of effort and thought that went into writing the guide itself is prodigious, I think it behooves us all to help Spiritus improve it. That's what peer review is all about. Anyway, my hat is off to you sir.

Crit Priest:
(1) 17.54 GH worth of healing for 13.20 GH casts
(2) Given 9k SP, GH hits for ([9039+(9000*.9672)][1.24*1.06*1.15])=[17743.8][1.51]= 26821
(4) Given GH mana cost at 5559, ([5559*13.20]/30)=2446 MPS
(3) 15682 HPS for 2446 MPS
(4) 6.4115 HPM

Haste Priest:
(1) 18.30 GH worth of healing for 14.65 GH casts
(2) 16359 HPS for 2715MPS
(3) 6.0254 HPM

The different in MPS consumed is 269: enough to reforge away 2275 spirit. This results in:

Adjusted Crit Priest:
(1) Gains 2275 itemization points and evenly splits between CRIT & MST.
Adjusted Crit Priest: 36.34% Crit, 10% Haste, 38.84% Mastery,
(2) 18.60 GH worth of healing for 13.20 GH cost over 30sec @ same sustainability as Hastepriest spamming GH over a 1min period

This is a throughput increase of (18.60 - 18.30) / 18.30 = 1.6% over the Hastepriest, bought at the cost of a slight increase in the variance of the supplied healing. This is notably an order of magnitude smaller than the (20.19 - 17.95) / 17.95 = 12.5% increase your math suggests.

The fundamental flaw in the reasoning used to support crit is the claim that mastery greatly enhances the effectivity of crit on single-target heals. Given that the effect of mastery is constrained only to crits, its effect is actually quite marginal. For comparison, take your exemplar "Crit Priest" and add 100 mastery rating or 100 crit rating and observe the effect on healing efficiency (see the rows "Crit Priest + 100 crit" and "Crit Priest + 100 mst" on the spreadsheet). Note that added crit rating increases throughput by 8 times as much as added mastery. This is true to varying degree even down to 0 mastery rating: mastery is never a better stat than crit. Thanks to the 8 base mastery giving us 20% increased absorbs, our crits are already at 209%, we don't need anymore.

Indeed, the best thing to do for single-target heals is to remove mastery completely from gear. The "Pure Crit" and "Haste + Crit" rows in the sheet are exactly your Critpriest and Hastepriest with all excess mastery rating converted to Crit. Note that they both have higher throughput than the Adjusted Crit Priest (19.03 and 20.02 Eff. GH vs. 18.60), while retaining 2275 more spirit on gear.

It would appear that mostly Spirit/Crit gear would be ideal for tank healing, although this simplistic treatment ignores the use of PW:S on the tank and the fact that PW:S scales amazingly badly with crit and amazingly well with mastery. I will leave it as future work to combine Spiritus' various PW:S/Penance/GH "combos" with this analysis to get an idea of the relative scaling of each combo with crit and mastery.

[Deleted]

Hi [-Spiritus-],

I just first of all wanted to say thank you for this guide, I'm not new to priest healing, I healed in TBC and then played another toon through Wrath so priest healing has changed massively since I last did it. This guide is both very clear and informative, it was everything I was looking for in a Priest guide, so again; thank you for taking what must have been a lot of time into writing this.

Moderators, I found this guide because it was 'sticked' now it's just posted with the rest of the articles written by the fine people of your forum. Whilst this is good for the standard posts this is something special and I feel it should be treated as such.

Foolishstar

[Deleted]

This thread is still linked in the "Guides, Important Threads & Rules" sticky at the top of the forum, just as is the "State of Discipline 4.1.0" thread is linked in the State of the Class sticky.

[Deleted]

thanks for that awesome guide, it helped me alot.

personally i have a rather special specc issue due to our setup. i am most of the time healing together with a pally through bot, bwd and throne. (we use a shammy for nef + alakir as well). i want to keep my holy offspecc as i enjoy its playstyle really much and want to be able to dish out pure hps in aoe heavy encounters (chim).

i need strong shields for chogall p2 hence why i reforged tons to mastery still sitting at around 13% haste raidbuffed.

but im pretty unsure about my specc. i am currently running http://wowtal.com/#k=vO8TfoxW.aei.priest.-B0UMd. i cant assign myself into a certain role. i need some strong raidhealing in some encounters and tankhealing/tankhealingsupport in others. i would prefer to stay archangel/atonement for halfus hc and aoe healing burst. but i dont know if its worth it. furthermore i dont know if i spent my points in holy and shadow perfectly. inspiration seems pretty mandatory since my mate doesnt provide it. but i could as well redirect 1 point of empowered healing and 2 from darkness into darkness, veiled shadows, desp prayer or surge of light.

would apreciate some advice

[[-Spiritus-]]

Sorry for the delay in these responses, but I've been spending most of my free time over the last week or so fixing my carport that got damaged over the winter.

Anywho...

I have a two part question.

Do you think this [Disc XPS] has a situational role where three healers for 10man normal-mode is overkill, and having the .5 healer/damage would be more beneficial than having three healers?

Short answer: no.

Long answer: If the situation ever called for .5 healer/damage in 10man during progression, the issue would not be that you need a Disc XPS priest, rather that either (A) You need a better strategy/better play [dps/hps harder] OR (B) you are doing your best and still failing, which means the encounter has been overtuned.

As I've stated, its more of a fun thing than some super secret key that'll make your entire raid fall into place.

On the side, I wondered if you would think of adding in pieces that would be key for Disc (all three role specs) to help give an idea of model pieces to look for.

Nope. As I said in the guide, I'll give you some ballpark stat benchmarks to look for and what those stats mean to your build or role, but I'll not present a X>Y>Z list or a gear list, because, for healing, there isn't a mathematical "best" for every given pull on every given encounter. Also, though this may be a bit egotistical, I personally hate healer gear lists and wish people would burn them all in the fires of Mt. Doom. Why give a rat's behind about the reasons for stat selection when one simply makes an AtlasLoot list that some guy made up and check the items off as they drop? One will end up a much better healer if one first understands why one would want the stats one wants, then pull up a gear list and select the pieces that gives one the ratios one desires.

---------- Post added 2011-03-22 at 01:57 PM ----------

Awesome guide btw, atm im using mastery stacked gear with 50-60% healing done with shields. Do you think it would be beneficial for me to reforge some mastery to haste (18.27 mastery, 45% stronger absorbs, 4,5% haste unbuffed). My guild has been trying on valiona 25 man hc for one raid, using 2 holy priests, 1 pala, 1 shaman and 1 druid.

With a few exceptions, at T11 gear levels, most HC raiding disc priests are running a more HST heavy build, using PW:S as a catch and a precast to damage on an individual basis. With the super pumped base absorb amount now on PW:S, T11 MST stacking is really only good if your counting 75-90% of your HPS from PW:S, which is really only viable with propping and/or full heroic gear [and if you have full heroic gear, chances are you don't need this guide]. With a HST heavy build, PW:S will still absorb enough to do its job as a precast and a catch, but your PoH, GH, & Aton will be substantially improved. For example, my current HST levels has my 2.5sec casts dropped down to ~2.04 & I really don't feel like I've given up the purpose and function of PW:S to do so.

Also atm im trading my pi on cd with our balance druids inervate on cd, is that worth it, im thinking like this: im loosing hps by doing this but as i can keep up a slight higher hps for a longer time (higher then without the inervate) compared to burst out insane hps with the pi either poh spamming or shield spamming with iw. also the blance druid is gaining some dps by getting the pi. am i missing something or is this correct?

I'd keep the PI for yourself and demand the innervate, unless content is on farm or your failure on progression is DPS based. In essence, both the PI and the Innervate are better spent on you, and you shouldn't have to "trade" buffs to maximize your guild's chance of success.

---------- Post added 2011-03-22 at 01:59 PM ----------

I am in no way attacking Spiritus' work, only helping to polish it. The amount of effort and thought that went into writing the guide itself is prodigious, I think it behooves us all to help Spiritus improve it. That's what peer review is all about. Anyway, my hat is off to you sir.

Thank you for the time working on this. I'm only doing quick replies ATM, but I'll make sure to write a proper response Soon(tm).

---------- Post added 2011-03-22 at 02:05 PM ----------

but im pretty unsure about my specc. i am currently running http://wowtal.com/#k=vO8TfoxW.aei.priest.-B0UMd. i cant assign myself into a certain role. i need some strong raidhealing in some encounters and tankhealing/tankhealingsupport in others.

would apreciate some advice

Personally? If I was dead set on keeping a holy off-spec, I'd just run my tank healing build as disc and raid heal as holy. Your other option is to have two disc specs, one for tanking and one for raid healing [as I do]. I'm not a big fan of "a little here and a little there" unless I can have 100% of here and 100% of there. In lieu of that, I'd rather choose 100% of here and 50% of there than 75% of here and there, if that makes sense.

EDIT: Also, I may start purposefully delaying my responses until the guide drops off the front page. I'd rather reply as soon as I am able, but MMO-C has its "vision" of uniformity amongst forums, so I have to fall back on the old school tools.

[Breekjou]

Thanks OP this was invaluable ! I learned a lot from this one guide - I will be duel speccing - One specc as XPS and other a Crit build .

I will for sure use this as a sticky on our guild site

[[-Spiritus-]]

Thanks OP this was invaluable ! I learned a lot from this one guide - I will be duel speccing - One specc as XPS and other a Crit build .

I will for sure use this as a sticky on our guild site

Thank you for reading!

Just so you are aware, I don't really see the viability of the XPS build outside of theory. Its a fun look at what a real DPS/Healer hybrid could be in WoW, but ultimately there isn't any room for it in the design.

Also, are you tank healing with your crit build?

[noisemap]

Hello Spiritus,

Your post is absolutely phenomenal and I have learned so much from it. Currently my main is a holy pally, however I have always found disc priests fascinating. Now I was doing some comparing of heals between my two characters (mind you my priest is barely 349 ilvl and my Pally is 354) But for a holy pally the filler is Holy Light which does roughly (unbuffed) about 8-12k heals and costs around 3k mana. I am currently atonement specced for TANK healing and found that my smites were healing for around 9 - 15k (unbuffed) and costing just a little less mana (with evangelism up to 5 stacks).

My question is could you switch your Heal filler for a Smite filler (when the tank is above 85%) and is this a viable tank healing raiding spec/method. I am new to disc priest healing so any insight is helpful insight

My current spec is 33/8/0 with 0/2 points in SoS.

[[-Spiritus-]]

My question is could you switch your Heal filler for a Smite filler (when the tank is above 85%) and is this a viable tank healing raiding spec/method. I am new to disc priest healing so any insight is helpful insight

My current spec is 33/8/0 with 0/2 points in SoS.

I, personally, do not recommend tank healing Disc priests to even pick up AA/Aton because RNG is such a horrible thing for tank healing, especially in hardmodes.

Furthermore, SoS, I believe, is what really makes the Disc tank healer shine; being able to weave PW:S more frequently into your GHs & Heals is a significant throughput increase. It also greatly increases the desirability of MST.

When Atonement is directly compared to Heal on a one-on-one basis, however, you are right in that it is a far superior "filler." However, when you add in SoS and the RNG elements of Atonement, I find Heal to be preferable filler to Atonement for a tank healing Disc priest.