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  1. #1

    AoE-Tanking vs strong DPS

    Hello fellow Warriors!

    First off: this is my Warrior-toon: http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/characte...erian/advanced

    I just recently got him to level 85 and run a lot of heroics now to get some decent equipment. I usually only run with guildies, which is ofc fine. The problem is: due to the large margin between my equip and the ones of the DPS, I rarely ever manage to hold threat, especially on larger groups of adds.
    Understandably, my guildmates are rather unwilling to slow down a little, as it is no problem for our healer to keep the group up even when I lose a mob or two. It does crack my self-consciousness though so I'm looking for a way to get aggro from groups as fast as possible.

    My current AE-rotation is Charge (Leap when at high rage)->Rend->TC->SW, then Revenge+Cleave and TC/SW whenever ready. That way, it's about 5 seconds after the pull until I stun all mobs and am able to switch targets to build up thread on all of them, which is too long when you've got t11-DPS going all out on the mobs.
    Would Charge->SW or maybe Charge->TC/Cleave->SW be better? Also, would it make sense to sacrifice some avoidance/mitigation on my equip for Expertise/Hit especially since we don't use any CC?

    Thank you very much in advance.


    TL;DR
    How to get aggro from groups fast?!

  2. #2
    The Lightbringer shadowkras's Avatar
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    Your best bet is to put skull and X marks and make sure they see you marking the mobs instead of marking after you are already tanking.
    People take stupidity to a whole new level when they sit in front of a computer.

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  3. #3
    When there's a large gear disparity between you and your DPS, and your DPS doesn't know how to assist or follow a marked kill order, you're going to have trouble holding aggro pretty much no matter what you do. That's not your fault.

    It sounds to me, if we're being honest, like your guildmates have already devolved back in to Wrath mode, where there's basically no meaningful punishment for being dumb.

  4. #4
    Deleted
    Spam buttans.

    I like wearing hit and expertise for 5-man dungeons. I have had no issues completely steamrolling heroic dungeons these last weeks (SW, glyphed Int Shout, CB, Reflect, Disarm, Bash, TC, Demoralizing Shout dispels from SS - who the hell needs others to CC when we're walking CC-machines?).

    Spare Shockwave, I barely use AoE abilities for the threat. I debuff them and snap healing aggro with them. I spam Cleave and do my normal single target rotation, always targeting the focused mob(s), if there are any.

    Ah crap I suck at giving advice. Since you still have many upgrades from HCs and JPs I'm not surprised you have issues with keeping aggro from damage dealers who overgear them. The only thing I can think of from the tip of my head would be to wear extra hit and expertise, to delay your Shockwave until you A.) got a lot of Vengance, or B.) you lost aggro on two or more mobs, giving you plenty of time to taunt/SS them back to you.

  5. #5
    Your current AoE rotation is very similar to mine. I am glyphed for Cleave to assist in the tanking. As shadowkras said, try marking a skull and even an X and focus on the skull for aoe while letting the rend ticks and tclaps handle everyone else. Even if you focus skull, the rest should have over 100k threat no problem by the time it's dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Nop I haven't ... France always managed to win the wars ...

    Edit: well, you know, kinda.

  6. #6
    If you spam fast enough you can leap and charge at the same time

    I often loose aggro myself when running guildhc's. But it's always due to the 3 dps picking thieir own target. Often it's enough just to taunt if I loose one. Tidyplates is an awsome addon for seeing wich mob you loose aggro from.

    I don't loose my good night sleep if it's another warriror in the party and he dies because he charges into a group and does bladestorm

  7. #7
    Bloodsail Admiral Nume's Avatar
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    Heh I admittedly havent tanked a lot in cata, but one thing I used to do to hold extra mobs, especially if you have an arms warrior/rogue/retadin with a stun, is mark a skull and tell everyone to burst down skull immediately while using stuns. Then use x as your target to rend/tclap/shockwave and focus on the rest of the mobs, basically ignorning skull. If its a caster and you have stuns your dps should be able to kill it with no issues by themselves, and by that time you should have threat on the rest so they can aoe/whatever.

  8. #8
    Blizzard said it's intended to lose aggro on a mob that is only hit by aoe threat skills if it is focused by a dps.
    It's not normal however if you lose aggro to aoe abilities.
    It's not normal either if you lose aggro to your healers using aoe threat abilities.

    Long answer short : your rotation is perfect. It's impossible by design to hold aggro on group of mobs that are single-target focused by dps.

  9. #9
    Thanks for the hints.
    Calling out one target to burn down while concentrating on the others sounds good - I'll try that.
    Also, I'm already head over heels in love with Tidy Plates - thanks Dakkomakko

  10. #10
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by orla
    DK's have DnD
    Druids have swipe
    Pallys have consecrate
    Warriors have Carpal Tunnel
    Basically this.

  11. #11
    Either tell them to wait 3 seconds or suck it up and deal with the self consciousness. If they outgear you with raid gear, there is not that much else you can do.
    Ecce homo ergo elk

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Iyona View Post
    Spam buttans.
    This. TC, then spam cleave (glyphed) and tab targets, you should be set.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iyona View Post
    Ah crap I suck at giving advice.
    Also this (alliance scum !)
    /beefed

  13. #13
    Legendary! Frolk's Avatar
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    Your rotation is fine, the problem is with the DPSers.
    If people decide they wanna "solo" an mob, i let em, i dont taunt of anybody, not even guildies.
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  14. #14
    Brewmaster Uriel's Avatar
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    Hmm if it is light trash Like Murlocs in Throne of tides its nothing to worry about.

    If its a average Trashgroup mark one or two Targets. Hold the rest via Thunderclap cause that will prevent Healer from pullig aggro of the unmarked targets. (and thats the only reason for AOE Threat)

    BUT:
    If your DPS take their own targets (one of the unmarked)
    If your DPS cant wait for you getting some Revengestacks
    If your DPS simply throw in Blizzard, Starfire, DnD ....

    = they are retarted.
    If thats the case you did nothing wrong because your DPS did. Ask them to give you a few moments, to attack Symboled Targets and use single rotation because: Singlenuke>AOE
    If they refuse they are just stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisKoe View Post
    Understandably, my guildmates are rather unwilling to slow down a little,
    Well i can not understand that. If you are a fresh 85 Tank why the hell they are not slowing down a bit? Tell them if they wanna have fun thats ok, but YOU should also have fun shouldnt you? Loosing Aggro to a hitting Pyrostrike before you lift your arm isnt Fun.

    Also if they wanna tank so badly let them. I changed to my furyspec in a Pug whit lots of idots and did DPS. So everyone was on their own. After a few wipes the DPS asked my why i didnt hold aggro so i started to explain.................
    Last edited by Uriel; 2011-01-28 at 10:42 AM.

  15. #15
    When I need to do the same, I mark a {skull} and aside from TC and SW, I don't do anything else on him. Well, if he runs off, I taunt (or when I loose aggro) and if I can reach my button for Concussion Blow, I'll stun him. He'll be dead in 10 seconds anyway.
    If he isn't dead in 10 seconds, then you'll have to notice that when you're taunting him and just tank it with SS and HS.

    I also heard a Forum Moderator from Blizzard say that he uses Recklessness before a pull, but in my experience in WotLK, Recklessness didn't do anything when I was in Defensive Stance. But if that works, then maybe Retaliation is an option too!

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Uriel View Post
    Well i can not understand that. If you are a fresh 85 Tank why the hell they are not slowing down a bit? Tell them if they wanna have fun thats ok, but YOU should also have fun shouldnt you? Loosing Aggro to a hitting Pyrostrike before you lift your arm isnt Fun.
    As I mentioned in the opening post: there is no downside to nuke the hell out of every group, so why shouldn't they do it? Can't blame them either. When I'm the DPS in that group with my mainchar, I behave just the same.

  17. #17
    Bloodsail Admiral Nume's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nesco View Post
    I also heard a Forum Moderator from Blizzard say that he uses Recklessness before a pull, but in my experience in WotLK, Recklessness didn't do anything when I was in Defensive Stance. But if that works, then maybe Retaliation is an option too!
    Lol I believe there is a macro in the helpful macro thread in this forum which will switch to zerker, pop recklessness and any trinkets you want, then switch to def and pop shield block. Then you just blow stuff up after your charge :P. From what others have said it even affects shockwave so it can crit em all for lots of damage. I have the macro on my warrior but i havent actually tried it so no guarantees if it works :P.
    Edit: From the thread I was talking about:
    "- Swifty Protection 1shot macro

    /cast [stance:1] Berserker stance
    /cast [stance:3] Recklessness
    /cast [stance:3] Defensive Stance
    /cast [stance:2] Shield Block
    /cast [stance:2] Battle Stance
    /use <Trinket>
    famous swifty prot 1shot macro.
    After this you charge -> shield slam crit for a gazillion. only use the red part if you have a trinket that can increase your dmg or shield block value"

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Howling View Post
    Originally Posted by orla
    DK's have DnD
    Druids have swipe
    Pallys have consecrate
    Warriors have Carpal Tunnel

    Basically this.
    Coulnd't be more true. I would suggest if there's no CC needed: Charge/Leap>Rend>T Clapx2 with a revenge in between> Shockwave.
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  19. #19
    Get more expertise and spam cleave more.

    Edit: And more hit.
    Also reforge your parry/dodge to mastery and dodge to parry (or hit/expertise where applicable)
    Last edited by jobdone; 2011-01-28 at 03:50 PM.

  20. #20
    Deleted
    I usually go for Charge>Rend>TC>Cleave>SW>Cleave You should be hit/exp-capped for trash without trying

    Also it helps alot to have a skull-target, your aoe-threat will by far be enough to keep agro from aoe-spells but if ppl tend to single-target one mob each it can indeed be tough to keep them all on you, esp. if you need to squeeze SR and or other defensive cooldowns into the mix.

    So, mark a skull, when it's dead you will have enough agro for sure. Vigilance always helps too

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