What Should A PVP Frost Mage Gem ?!

[Deleted]

Hey am just wondering what a hit capped frost mage should gem ? mastery, intellect or what?!, any help would be appreciated !

[Mikzor]

Gem icelance!

[Reliquary]

Gem icelance!

+1 to you sir.

[Barburos]

i wish people would stop saying bind everything to icelance and roll your head on the keyboard. granted yes you could pretty much spam it but it wont win you the game against a good player. its one of our main moves so its like saying "NO! warriors can not use heroic strike, its cheating!"

ok back on topic, from what i've researched its int in red gems, int crit in yellow, and int stam in blue if youve already reached hit cap. however sometimes i've read things that seem to suggest stacking more crit than int, so i'm not entirely sure. sorry, i hope this helps

[Eschatonin]

It should be noted to never use stam gems in pvp.

Int is your main gem, and unless you're not hit capped for level 80, it should override blue sockets, and yellow sockets if a blue socket is on the piece of gear too.
If you have a piece with a yellow or a red + yellow socket, then put int+crit gems in the yellow sockets. Of course if the bonus is something unnecessary like 10 hit when you're capped, then just chuck in an int gem.

[rtjason]

It should be noted to never use stam gems in pvp.

Int is your main gem, and unless you're not hit capped for level 80, it should override blue sockets, and yellow sockets if a blue socket is on the piece of gear too.
If you have a piece with a yellow or a red + yellow socket, then put int+crit gems in the yellow sockets. Of course if the bonus is something unnecessary like 10 hit when you're capped, then just chuck in an int gem.

Crit is hands down the best stat a pvp frost mage can gem. Hit-Crit-Int-Haste/Master. Haste and mastery are pretty equal but the higher your crit the more reliable your burst.

[AppleOrange]

From looking at a few different rank 1 title mages, Affix, Pookz, Venruki and a few others...they all have different setups

Affix is all +Crit
Pookz is all +Int

I forgot what venruki is but I think he is Crit as well.

There are some others who are full haste and maintaining extremely high ratings as well.

The safest bet right now is to stack int or crit gems.

[Skarrd]

From looking at a few different rank 1 title mages, Affix, Pookz, Venruki and a few others...they all have different setups

Affix is all +Crit
Pookz is all +Int

I forgot what venruki is but I think he is Crit as well.

There are some others who are full haste and maintaining extremely high ratings as well.

The safest bet right now is to stack int or crit gems.

I notice a lot of differences among gladiator ranked players as well. Some go haste and some go crit (gear, gems, enchants, everything). Personally, I'm not entirely sure why a mage rolling for crit wouldn't gem int. Int still gives crit, and it provides significantly more damage than crit would. Hybrid gems are a different story, of course. Haste gems make more sense to me since haste provides utility benefits as well as damage in the form of faster CC/globals.

Of course, I'm really in no position to say 2500+ players are doing it wrong, it just seems odd given the obvious pure dps gaps between crit and int, especially since 33.34% is unreachable in the first place.

[Voltair]

Of course, I'm really in no position to say 2500+ players are doing it wrong, it just seems odd given the obvious pure dps gaps between crit and int, especially since 33.34% is unreachable in the first place.

Comp perhaps?

[Hotfish]

I notice a lot of differences among gladiator ranked players as well. Some go haste and some go crit (gear, gems, enchants, everything). Personally, I'm not entirely sure why a mage rolling for crit wouldn't gem int. Int still gives crit, and it provides significantly more damage than crit would. Hybrid gems are a different story, of course. Haste gems make more sense to me since haste provides utility benefits as well as damage in the form of faster CC/globals.

Of course, I'm really in no position to say 2500+ players are doing it wrong, it just seems odd given the obvious pure dps gaps between crit and int, especially since 33.34% is unreachable in the first place.

Instead of doubting these gladiators' setups, you should be looking for WHY they work. Obviously their setups are working for them if they were able to successfully achieve their high rank on the arena ladder.

I suspect the players that stack crit are using ice lance a LOT, even without fingers of frost or freezing the target. The shatter talent multiplies your crit chance, but these crit-stacking players probably want to be able to crit often WITHOUT shatter. So, I'm guessing they pop all of their damage steroids (icy veins, trinket, mirror images, engineer gloves, lightweave embroidery by chance, time warp) to boost their intellect up, and then proceed with ice lance spamming with or without FoF/freezing.

A no-freeze ice lance should crit for upwards 10k damage with all those steroids activated, which isn't bad at all.


The high ranking players that are stacking lots of int and haste are probably casting frostbolts much more frequently. However, this is susceptible to LoS'ing and pillar hugging. Another obvious benefit from haste is a fast casting polymorph. So, it all boils down to these gladiators' playstyles and team composition.

[Dakkomakko]

This does not hep OP at all but I had to say it

"NO! warriors can not use heroic strike, its cheating!"

I feel i never can use hs in pvp... never get enough rage. So don't use icelance vs warriors right? it's cheating!

[Hotfish]

The safest way to gem/enchant for frost mages is probably the standard: intellect, crit, mastery, haste. You really can't go wrong with gemming for high intellect.

However, you may find that gemming for more crit, or more haste, or more mastery, may suit your playstyle more. The ones stacking crit are probably spamming instant cast spells, jumping and going rambo everywhere, while the high haste players are more rooted to the ground, standing and casting frostbolts and things.

[Swizzle]

Pure Int in reds.
Int/crit in yellows for a heavy burst set-up
Int/haste in yellows for a control heavy set-up
Spell pen in blue if short on cap (don't know how)
Int/hit in blue if short of cap (again, don't know how)
Pure Int in blue if the socket bonus is garbage
Int/stam in blues if the bonus is 10+ int

[Barburos]

Pure Int in reds.
Int/crit in yellows for a heavy burst set-up
Int/haste in yellows for a control heavy set-up
Spell pen in blue if short on cap (don't know how)
Int/hit in blue if short of cap (again, don't know how)
Pure Int in blue if the socket bonus is garbage
Int/stam in blues if the bonus is 10+ int

thats my gemming in a nutshell. i opt for the heavy burst even though its my job to cc, simply because the burst is game winning and you should have enough haste with TW and IV to get polys off within your burst

[Skarrd]

The safest way to gem/enchant for frost mages is probably the standard: intellect, crit, mastery, haste. You really can't go wrong with gemming for high intellect.

However, you may find that gemming for more crit, or more haste, or more mastery, may suit your playstyle more. The ones stacking crit are probably spamming instant cast spells, jumping and going rambo everywhere, while the high haste players are more rooted to the ground, standing and casting frostbolts and things.

I tend to agree with both of your posts. What you gem honestly won't make a huge difference in lower brackets as long as it isn't strength. min/maxing stats in pvp is nothing compared to perfecting your skills, so just cookie cutter copying stats and spenidng more time playing is probably the better route until you and your buddies have a solid team over 2200. Then they playstyles will start to show through more, I imagine.

[rtjason]

I notice a lot of differences among gladiator ranked players as well. Some go haste and some go crit (gear, gems, enchants, everything). Personally, I'm not entirely sure why a mage rolling for crit wouldn't gem int. Int still gives crit, and it provides significantly more damage than crit would. Hybrid gems are a different story, of course. Haste gems make more sense to me since haste provides utility benefits as well as damage in the form of faster CC/globals.

Of course, I'm really in no position to say 2500+ players are doing it wrong, it just seems odd given the obvious pure dps gaps between crit and int, especially since 33.34% is unreachable in the first place.

You are looking at damage but not burst damage. If you are running WLD for example, burst is a little less important since two players are out of the game for the whole match, so haste would be a better option. However most mage comps, crit can't be beat. If you stack int, the conversion to crit is very low. High level mages stack crit because you have more reliable burst on the move. Not to mention, I'm pretty sure that Ice Lance still scales pretty shitty with int.

It can be a game breaker to still be able to do mobile damage when you are getting trained, and I can guarantee you that any double melee over 2200 is training the mage most of the time (except for my rmp comp, priest gets shit on). The high crit lets you still get in those 11-14k lances on the move because you surely aren't casting.

[Alphamage]

I have a question. Is it not viable to gem resillence in yellow sockets or it is a waste? Just curious..

[rtjason]

I have a question. Is it not viable to gem resillence in yellow sockets or it is a waste? Just curious..

Waste. Around 3k resilience is plenty for me. Just go all pvp and gem for burst while wearing a pve trinket, etc.

[Goliethlol]

There is some inner debate among mages on the crit vs int issue, and the general consensus is that if your comp is dependent on fast games, where swapping targets where you absolutely need the added reliability of burst damage, then crit is probably your best option.

Int is your best all around stat. It will increase your damage output by both increasing spellpower, and crit, as well as help you defensively by buffing both mana shield, ice barrier, and mage ward (though the gains are quite low I will admit, they are gains none the less).

The new gemming strategy being discussed on AJ is to stack haste once a reasonable amount of crit is met, around 20% (Piercing Ice included). 20% is actually not an arbitrary number, it is approximately what the crit chance that mages had in s8 vs players during a shatter (20x3 = 60% for current shatter vs ~25% base crit + 50% for old shatter - ~15% for resilience = ~60%). The reasons behind stacking haste is that other casters are in fact stacking haste, locks in particular, and if you are in a scenario where the oposing caster has a significantly faster GCD you will run into a myriad of problems throughout a game.

As for what to gem in blue sockets:

You will need 1 spell penetration gem (50) plus either the penetration neck or cape (201) to be capped vs mages with resistance aura or resistance totems (240). It is imperative to be spell pen capped as resistances now also give a flat damage reduction to spells, on top of the added chance to completely resist them. 195 resistance (ie: aura or totem) gives a flat 24.92% damage reduction to spells, and the added resistance that mage armor gives increases it to 29%. Sacrificing 1 blue gem slot (which usually contains a hybrid gem anyways) to fully cap spell pen, is generally the best idea.

Now, after you've reached the spell pen cap, the best thing to gem in blue slots is actually hit. This allows you to reforge hit off your gear to crit (or haste if that's what you prefer), and gives the greatest overall stat gains (in terms of useful stats).

[Deleted]

Pure Int in reds.
Int/crit in yellows for a heavy burst set-up
Int/haste in yellows for a control heavy set-up
Spell pen in blue if short on cap (don't know how)
Int/hit in blue if short of cap (again, don't know how)
Pure Int in blue if the socket bonus is garbage
Int/stam in blues if the bonus is 10+ int

I don't fully agree on this.

Ideally Int should trumph everything since it's a primary stat.
When you actually burst someone, it's 90% during people being in novas/frozen/FoF.
Meaning the crit is worth 3 times more.

Leads to:
120 crit vs 40 int when actually bursting. Don't misunderstand me though, i know you and all other mages are aware of this 100%, BUT STILL don't maximize their crit for it.


Controlled burst > huge random bursts.