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  1. #361
    Brewmaster Thundertom's Avatar
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    Oct 2009
    The Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by Simca View Post
    It's only a nerf if you pug. In a guild group, you won't get the buff.

    It's an amazing solution, in my opinion.

    I sure wouldn't have thought of it.
    Yeah, I think it's pretty slick too.

  2. #362
    Absolutely the right way to go. PUGs shouldn't be a cake-walk, but 1) they do suffer for being less coordinated, even if you have a good leader (notice I didn't say tank) and 2) having a buff that scales with number of random members will encourage people to bring in random people, which is always good. It used to be you saw a lot of guild groups of 3-4 that would bring in randoms in Wrath, but I haven't seen that at all in Cata, unless it was my guild group, and we do it because we're a tiny guild.

    I'll wait and see, but other than the usual round of knee-jerk QQ over "nerfs = too easy" I can't see why anyone could object to this.

  3. #363
    No, not bad. GOOD, VERY GOOD.
    And people whining they surrender to QQ... DUH!!!
    Of course they do. If enough people aren't happy with the game OF COURSE they have to adjust to the 100,000 "QQing" and not listen to the 100 saying it's OK. Come on, are you people complaining about those changes so OBLIVIOUS about the number of people wanting those changes?

    Let me say this, since you're minority and not happy with the changes, YOU GUYS quit the game. I'm sure the amount of people that will still play will make Blizzard not even notice your ragequit.

  4. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by Dread Pirate Roberts View Post
    I mean, buffs like Luck of the Draw always seem nice, but really it only acts as a crutch that makes everyone suffer in the long-term.
    That makes no sense.

    What you're saying only makes sense in terms of content familiarity. When I'm with a group of friends, we work well together because we know each others strengths and weaknesses.

    This buff doesn't compensate for people's lack of familiarity with CONTENT. It compensates for their lack of familiarity with EACH OTHER, and that's something that no amount of learning the content can help you with, as you'll rarely see these people again.
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  5. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by Histidine View Post
    An excellent idea. Make it easier for pugs while maintaining the challenge for groups with coordination. Deftly done.
    Exactly. I don't understand why there are so many people that don't get this.

    If you don't pug, it will NOT affect you.

    For the all elitists out there, if you are so pro and don't want to play with "bads", then you are probably running in your own groups anyway, correct? Well, then this won't affect you.

    If you are worried about other players getting gear, well aren't you raiding? This stuff isn't going to be as good as your raid gear. Won't even really matter when the next tier comes out.

    All that matters if whether you are having fun in the game or not. Why play the game if you aren't? So if you don't pug, why worry what some other player is getting, or how they play the game?

    I have pugged and ran in premade groups, and while I don't necesarily feel heroics are hard, I do think that this buff is a good idea considering that pugging has its own "challenges".

    And for the person or two who said they were going to quit because of this

  6. #366
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowboxer123 View Post
    Exactly. I don't understand why there are so many people that don't get this.
    They TRY HARD to not get it.
    Because they believe coming to random places and bitching how they learned2play and "nerfs" are unnecessary for "pro-players" like them, and "n00bs" are just ruining their challenges, will make people think they are neat, and that everyone will remember their names, as a great player.

    Well, we don't. I don't even bother to read the nicknames of those people. I just read the post and laugh of those anonymous tries to look "neat".

  7. #367
    Seems like an ok change. But 15% is alot, also since the luck of the draw buff wasn't working at all for certain dungeons why not try it at 5% first. Seems like blizz caves in everytime someone says something is to hard. They took this stand that this is the new way and now these dungeons are gonna be even easier then WotLK with a 15% buff. Did they not learn from ICC that buffing the player is just lame, people get used to that dps and then go somewhere the buff isn't active and QQ about there dps is low. Just another band-aid style fix nothing interesting.

  8. #368
    Changes might encourage me to do more h pugs on alts, much like wrath, no need to do them on my main anymore.

    RBG change... should be 5 man groups.

  9. #369
    10vs10 is too much based on what class you choose for your team, its so unbalanced I liked 15v15 moar because, well bigger is better.
    well hopefully patch comes next wednesday so I can play 10vs10 again (heal priest buffs and gilneas changes)

  10. #370
    Quote Originally Posted by Dethh View Post
    Just another band-aid style fix nothing interesting.
    What have you got in mind ?

  11. #371
    This is a quite brilliant change and it will be interesting to see how it plays out. It had recently been brought up about the 5% buff missing from pugs and I was curious if that had been a WotlK thing only.

  12. #372
    Pit Lord Shamslam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Hickville, Indiana
    It's not going to change anything. At most it will help new healers with 15% more healing. 15% more DPS won't suddenly make your 5k DPS enough, it won't help you CC, it won't keep you from getting 1 shot by the numerous instant kill mechanics, tanks won't be able to suddenly handle CCing less with the whopping 20k or so health. Hell even for healers it won't stop you from being stupid and going OOM in 20 seconds.

    It only makes them slightly easier, it's not going to fix all the stupid that uses the LFD tool.
    I once had a character named "Clamslam" but Blizzard deemed it inappropriate.
    Retired from WoW: February 19, 2011. It was fun Blizz.

  13. #373
    IMHO, it's too little, too late.

    It does not even attempt to fix the LFD, with the fail groups it's assembling. Such a simple stop-gag should have been deployed within the first few weeks of Cataclysm, instead of almost two months after launch.

    I hope this is just a prelude of more fixes to come, this time focusing on actually teaching players how to better themselves and removing the rampant LFD iLvl exploiting, otherwise I won't even consider returning to this game. Tanking WotLK random heroics was the main reason I didn't cancel my subscription back then, the moment I realized they became more frustrating than fun in Cata I cancelled my account.

  14. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by Susej View Post

    They will NOT LEARN TO PLAY.



    For people like MYSELF WHO PLAY WELL. When i invite someone to BH 25 who pulls 9k dps while the rest of us are doing 15-16k.
    THEY WONT LEARN TO PLAY IF THE INSTANCE ISN'T NERFED EITHER. Why do you somehow think they will? If you beat an idiot with a stick for a few hours he won't become anymore intelligent then if you beat him with a candy cane.

    Instance not nerfed: Idiot in your BH group pulls 9k
    Instance nerfed: idiot in your BH group pulls 9.02k because he got that piece of gear.

    Now you apparently pug (BH....) and you're whining that one person is ruining it for you... Yet we're whining that FOUR ARE WASTING THREE HOURS OF OUR TIME AND GIVING US STAGE 2 HYPERTENSION and that is somehow wrong we want this fixed? How much of a hypocrite as you?

    Here's the difference, you could have checked his gear, asked him a question about how he plays, asked him to hit a dummy, checked with people to see if he's any decent.. We can't. We get thrown into a random heroic with four of the stupidest people imaginable. Doing LESS THEN 1K DPS AND STANDING IN FIRE.

    And when we try to kick them... Kick has failed. Or they're a guild of idiots. Why not just leave? Because we already carried them through most of the damn instance by this point and we rather get something other then 75g repair bills for putting the effort into (attempting) teaching them what to do. If we did quit? We'd just be looking at ANOTHER 45 minute Q.

    Why is the Q so long? Because these guys are holding up a tank for another three hours.

    Are you crying because in making people who don't sucks life easier they're also helping bad players get <i> Blues </i> ? Here's a good question. What's 15% of 1k? 150.... If the players are coming to your BH group because they think their 1150 dps is special then they can't be taught. Even in your mythical world of unicorns, rainbows, and lack of nerfs making bads good.

  15. #375
    So heroics nerfed a precise numerical value 15%, however with small changes in stat pools having huge effects on a fight this is probably more like a 30% nerf!

  16. #376
    Epic fail Blizz. Although maybe this won't make too much difference? I mean really, the scrub pulling 5k DPS in full heroic gear will now only do 5.75k. Not exactly game changing. Plus my heals will be more effective when these idiots stand in the cave-in, don't move out of the giant blue lasers, forget to jump, forget to run out, don't dispell, don't have interrupt or CC on their bar etc. That will be less frustrating for me.

    I've never in my life seen such a large group of people so incredibly content at being completely medicore at something.

  17. #377
    Mechagnome beno113's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Under my Bridge
    Quote Originally Posted by RokFenris View Post
    the moment I realized they became more frustrating than fun in Cata I cancelled my account.
    Running with guild = fun
    Running with bad PuG = not fun
    Running with bad PuG yet with a decent buff = Better
    Quote Originally Posted by eternalwhitemoon View Post
    Why strive to be excellent, when being just mediocre still kills the boss?

  18. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bighead View Post
    Punishing guild runs? Unless your guild is bad, guild runs have a much higher success rate than pugs because there's coordination, communication, etc. The buff is to compensate for pugs not having that.

    Once content patches get released they will become a joke, and eventually it will turn out like WotLK with being able to jump into the current content after running them. If this wasn't the case though, it would be another BC situation, where the hardcore players got to see all the content, while a majority of the playerbase never got passed Karazhan.

    Now the difference Blizzard can make is retaining the difficulty of raids of this tier, especially in heroic. I feel the difficulty now is good. Normals aren't necessarily faceroll, at least not to the scope of WotLK raids, and heroics are quite difficult.

    And as for your last comment. Why so mean
    If you didnt get past karazhan then you just sucked and couldnt get in a guild or didnt have the time at which point you should realize and quit complaining you didnt see it. I leveled a character from 1 to 70, got to SSC/TK and then rerolled on a new server and did the same thing and even completed Vashj/kael when it was required to get into MH/BT. If I can level 2 characters to max level and still get in a guild on a new server with no connections that downed vashj/kael then anyone else that has the time to play should be able to as well. This game is not hard. all it requires is learning from your mistakes.

    p.s - before you say I am an elitist, I am not. Im not always top of the charts or on 24/7. I have the mental compacity to realize what I do wrong and learn how to fix it. Most people are born with this ability and if you aren't then I suggest you get your G.E.D and go work in a factory and not worry about this game.
    Last edited by 420rogue; 2011-02-04 at 10:32 PM.

  19. #379
    if you're so pro, what are you doing in heroics? get back in your raid. oh wait. you mean you're only hardcore on the internets. nice.

  20. #380
    Quote Originally Posted by leivadith View Post
    Blizzard and a lot of wow players have no integrity.

    "QQ homework's hard, nerf school." I hope GC never ever is involved in education, else young people will become stupider and lazier than they even are today.
    Umm... you want WoW heroics to feel like doing homework? Wowser.

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