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  1. #61
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett Skullcrack View Post
    And that is relevant to the current debate how? Besides, I don't see how that's even relevant. Whether I buy a green item from the AH to disenchant or a stack of ore to prospect doesn't seem to have any fundamental difference. I don't see the fundamental difference between having to kill mobs for greens and having to mine nodes for ore. Except perhaps that anyone can kill mobs while mining requires you to spend a profession slot - but then again you can fish ore and herbs, which anyone can do.
    You're the one that brought it up. --->
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett Skullcrack View Post
    did not implement similar system for other professions.
    There is no similar system because enchanting is not similar to the other professions.

    Interesting fact: everyone can get greens without visiting the AH - not everyone can get ore.

    Stop comparing enchanting to other professions as if it was the same. It is not.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by runawaybishop View Post
    There is no similar system because enchanting is not similar to the other professions.
    Like I explained before, it IS similar enough. Even if it's not perfectly similar, so what? It still does not make it fair that others can benefit from my profession during dungeons while I cannot benefit from theirs. Let me roll on leather every time we kill a skinnable mob with a skinner in party, that would be fair.

    Interesting fact: everyone can get greens without visiting the AH - not everyone can get ore.
    Get your facts straight, everyone can fish ore (try it in TB if you haven't yet).

    ---------- Post added 2011-02-09 at 01:14 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Willelm View Post
    Just because you're an enchanter doesn't mean you get free reign on the green items that drop in heroics, and even if the option to DE straight off wasn't there, what do you think people would do with the greens they got? They'd send them to an enchanter to get DE'd and have the mats. You haven't lost one damn thing so quit QQing about it.
    Did you start playing after the change then? Because people very rarely rolled on greens and enchanters had an option to not DE blues/epics. I don't claim any special right to the drops, anyone can roll for vendor or to send to enchanter alt if they want, however I do claim a special right to dictate how MY profession that I paid to level is used. Reality is that enchanters lost a huge source of income with the change, it's only fair the same was done to other professions as well.
    Last edited by Brett Skullcrack; 2011-02-09 at 01:16 PM.

  3. #63
    I am not seeing anything diffrent here than any other crafting profession really. If you want a easy, cheap, steady source of income from a profession by far the easiest way to go is with one of the farming ones.

    Tailors dont have exclusive rights to take all the cloth that drops so why should Enchanters have exclusive rights to all the DE'd mats? In some ways enchanters are in a better position than other professions. Enchanters can gather a few of their crafting mats from doing a instance, a Leather worker, Blacksmith, Scribe, Alchemist cant.

    300g for a flask might appear to be expensive, but certainly on my server and on most I'm sure, the price is due to the cost of the mats. The only real way to make money from flask making is if your a elixir master and then you just make the money if/when you proc extra which runs at around 10%. It's very common to see flasks costing less than price of the mats so even that 10% disapears.

    Like all crafting professions though if you do teh simple/straight forward things that everyone one does it wont make you money, you just need to think a little diffrently thats all. I have a Alchy, Leather worker, Jewler, Tailor & Enchanter and all those CAN make fair money, you just need to think thats all.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Taraxacum View Post
    Tailors dont have exclusive rights to take all the cloth that drops so why should Enchanters have exclusive rights to all the DE'd mats?
    Nobody is asking for special rights to drops. You're free to roll greed on greens, blues and epics. The issue is that you should not be allowed to use my profession to DE those drops.

    Of course non-enchanters are happy about this since they will always have the materials for the enchants they need and can ask a guild enchanter to enchant their gear without spending a penny (or find one in trade and tip 5g). Before, even if you had a guild enchanter you still had to go to the AH to buy my mats (unless you had a DE alt, which not everyone does). Selling mats in the AH used to be a big source of income for enchanters, until Blizzard decided to change it while not changing any other profession.

  5. #65
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett Skullcrack View Post
    Like I explained before, it IS similar enough. Even if it's not perfectly similar, so what? It still does not make it fair that others can benefit from my profession during dungeons while I cannot benefit from theirs. Let me roll on leather every time we kill a skinnable mob with a skinner in party, that would be fair.



    Get your facts straight, everyone can fish ore (try it in TB if you haven't yet).[COLOR="red"]
    It is not similar enough. Enchanting is a gathering and crafting profession in one. Stop comparing it to other professions and ignoring this. No-one fishes enough ore to compare to a miner, not by any stretch of the imagination.

    You can roll on leather when every mob has a chance to be skinned - that would be fair. Your talk of "fairness" is horribly biased otherwise. You had it easy before by monopolising the market with enchanting since you controlled both the craft and the gathering aspect.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by runawaybishop View Post
    It is not similar enough. Enchanting is a gathering and crafting profession in one. Stop comparing it to other professions and ignoring this.
    You make no sense. Why would enchanting being gathering and crafting mean that others should be able to use my profession? The "gathering" part is not different from the "gathering" part of scribes or jewelcrafters.

    No-one fishes enough ore to compare to a miner, not by any stretch of the imagination.
    Someone hasn't tried fishing in TB.

    You can roll on leather when every mob has a chance to be skinned - that would be fair. Your talk of "fairness" is horribly biased otherwise. You had it easy before by monopolising the market with enchanting since you controlled both the craft and the gathering aspect.
    That also makes no sense. I didn't monopolise anything, it's not like I was the only enchanter around. There was competition between enchanters just like there is competition between any two players with the same profession. Now I have to compete with EVERYONE because EVERYONE is allowed to use my profession for free.

  7. #67
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett Skullcrack View Post
    You make no sense. Why would enchanting being gathering and crafting mean that others should be able to use my profession? The "gathering" part is not different from the "gathering" part of scribes or jewelcrafters.
    Because there is no other way to get the mats - so enchanters have a double hold on the market. They profit on selling the mats and profit again on the actual enchant.

    Scribes or Jewelcrafters need alc and herb respectively to prospect or mill. Thats another profession. You want to do both with one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brett Skullcrack View Post
    Someone hasn't tried fishing in TB.
    Fishing doesnt compete with mining, nor can you fish up the other ores so its pointless even talk about fishing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brett Skullcrack View Post
    That also makes no sense. I didn't monopolise anything, it's not like I was the only enchanter around. There was competition between enchanters just like there is competition between any two players with the same profession. Now I have to compete with EVERYONE because EVERYONE is allowed to use my profession for free.
    Really, everyone can enchant now? They still need to use an enchanter to craft. You just want them to have to buy mats from you as well.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett Skullcrack View Post
    You make no sense. Why would enchanting being gathering and crafting mean that others should be able to use my profession? The "gathering" part is not different from the "gathering" part of scribes or jewelcrafters.
    So if I understand you correctly you would want the system to have me in an instance with you:

    Roll on a BOE item. I win. I then ask you to DE it for me. Slowing down the run. You then have the option of saying No, Pay me or.... uh Im not an enchanter.

    Or

    We stand around at the last Boss and figure out some way for all to pass, (without the item getting ninja'd) roll have you get the item DE and pass the mats to the winner (w/o ninjaing not that you would but just using you as the collectine you). OR you just state im not an enchanter.

    How about this. Instead of an NPC that DEs BOP items why not have it like the SB stuff gets enchanted? That way you can have a little more control on how you operate on your server and people in random dungeons do not have to deal with it and still have a viable way to get mats?

    Regardless you can swap professions if you like. Or you can accept it the way it is. There is no guarantee in ANY profession that you will make "x" amount of money NOR was there ever any promise implied or otherwise by BLizzard that all professions were equal when it comes to money/availability mechanics.

    If you want a ME ME ME profession Enchanter is not it.
    Signature removed. Please read our guidelines. Venara

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Aknot View Post
    So if I understand you correctly you would want the system to have me in an instance with you:

    Roll on a BOE item. I win. I then ask you to DE it for me. Slowing down the run. You then have the option of saying No, Pay me or.... uh Im not an enchanter.

    Or

    We stand around at the last Boss and figure out some way for all to pass, (without the item getting ninja'd) roll have you get the item DE and pass the mats to the winner (w/o ninjaing not that you would but just using you as the collectine you). OR you just state im not an enchanter.

    How about this. Instead of an NPC that DEs BOP items why not have it like the SB stuff gets enchanted? That way you can have a little more control on how you operate on your server and people in random dungeons do not have to deal with it and still have a viable way to get mats?
    I want you not to be able to profit from the profession that I spent a profession slot on and paid for just because you happen to be in the same instance with me. You know, just like every other profession in game. Your "viable way to get mats" is to go to the AH and buy them instead of being handed them for free just because I happen to be in your group, just like every other profession in game.

    Regardless you can swap professions if you like. Or you can accept it the way it is. There is no guarantee in ANY profession that you will make "x" amount of money NOR was there ever any promise implied or otherwise by BLizzard that all professions were equal when it comes to money/availability mechanics.
    You're not getting the point. I picked enchanting way before the change, Blizzard then threw an absolutely massive nerf on it by allowing people like you to profit from MY work. There's no justification for it. If you want to be able to DE your should swap professions do enchanting.

  10. #70
    Deleted
    what do you think people would do with the greens they got? They'd send them to an enchanter to get DE'd and have the mats. You haven't lost one damn thing so quit QQing about it.
    If I got some herbs, I can give them to an alchemist and get free flasks. But first, i must get those herbs. And if you can send them to an enchater, it's ok. Send them. But I don't want to disenchant them for you. And, what about blue shards? You cannot send them to an enchanter. So, why the hell you get a shard if you are not an enchanter? Yes, mb your friend is an enchanter, he pushes "Need", he gets the item, he DEs it and the party rolls for it. But I don't want to DE the item for the roll winner. Why am I forced to do it?
    Last edited by mmocc46c8e1895; 2011-02-09 at 03:32 PM.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett Skullcrack View Post
    I want you not to be able to profit from the profession that I spent a profession slot on and paid for just because you happen to be in the same instance with me. You know, just like every other profession in game. Your "viable way to get mats" is to go to the AH and buy them instead of being handed them for free just because I happen to be in your group, just like every other profession in game.

    You're not getting the point. I picked enchanting way before the change, Blizzard then threw an absolutely massive nerf on it by allowing people like you to profit from MY work. There's no justification for it. If you want to be able to DE your should swap professions do enchanting.
    I fully understand what your saying. What your wanting is to control the supply of enchacnitng materials avalable so only enchanters have a means to gain them. i.e. if you have no enchanting profession your only means of getting the mats is by buying them in the AH. This is how it used to be in in vanilla/BC and some of Wrath. What this does is enable you to make a 'profit' from selling these mats. I, as a enchanter, really hope this is never reinstated!

    It is true with MUCH few mats available I would make more 'profit' per sale of them as the price of them would be that bit higher. Good so far. Now as there are much fewer mats about, and what there is costs more, it's going to cost me a small fortune to level the profession. This is both bad (I spend more) and good (fewer people will have it at max level). Anythign that I make while leveling is going to cost more and as we all know a lot of the ideal leveling enchants simply do not sell - bad as i'm now going to be loosing a lot of money as I level.

    Ok, so now I've made it to 575 enchnating and can get the 'real' business going. But as I only have access to small amount of my own materials, not enough to be making a large number of scrolls I'm going to have to buy the expensive ones off the AH. This in turn means the scrolls are going to cost a lot more limiting the number of people who will buy them (much as it was before in vanilla/BC and early Wrath). Yes I might make more profit per sale, but I can assure you sales will be a lot lower as well. This in my view is not good. If i dont buy the mats off the AH (or the few greens to DE off te AH) so I can make cheaper scrolls that will sell I am going to have to go farm the mats. As we know the farming of greens is not really possible or at best VERY time consumming.

    With everyone gaining the mats I DE form them (by force) there is a plentiful supply available for the AH. I get just as many as the other people which you view as bad but I can also buy the cheap mats the others list on the AH as they fight each other to be the chepest. With these cheap mats I can level much cheaper and also get a much higher volume of sales. Of course less profit per sale as a 20% profit would be less gold due to the cheaper price, but with them being affordable to everyone do I care?

    It all boils down to a few big profit margins, or lots of smaller ones. For me as I said I'm happy with way things are currently. I certainly make good money from enchanting and it's no more difficult now as it was befopre - just the way you need to do it/look at it is slightly different.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett Skullcrack View Post
    I want you not to be able to profit from the profession that I spent a profession slot on and paid for just because you happen to be in the same instance with me. You know, just like every other profession in game. Your "viable way to get mats" is to go to the AH and buy them instead of being handed them for free just because I happen to be in your group, just like every other profession in game.

    You're not getting the point. I picked enchanting way before the change, Blizzard then threw an absolutely massive nerf on it by allowing people like you to profit from MY work. There's no justification for it. If you want to be able to DE your should swap professions do enchanting.
    We all GET the point. Something happened that you are not happy about. (so what everything has been nerfed one way or another in the cycle of this game) What had happen appears not to be changing any time soon.

    The only way to solve this is to drop enchanting. Or you could at the beginning of all the runs have people agree in chat that they wont select Disenchant. That way no one can use it from you.... of course what do you do if you have 2 or more enchanters in the group, and the other enchanter does not care?

    Then whatcha going to do? Anyway... it doesnt matter I dont see it changing and since I dont always play my DAY ONE ENCHANTER its nice to be able to profit from other peoples professions as they do mine when I run my enchanter. Its a wash for me.

    So you only have one toon that you play? Or are all your toons Enchanters?
    Signature removed. Please read our guidelines. Venara

  13. #73
    Deleted
    I'm an Enchanter, though I have everything except Blacksmithing maxed out. I don't mind the group DE option and I'll tell you why.

    Enchanting has more ways to get materials than any other profession!

    1. Leatherworking - DE cheaply made items for mats.

    2. Tailoring - DE cheaply made items for mats.

    3. Blacksmithing - DE cheaply made items for mats.

    4. Jewelcrafting - DE cheaply made items for mats.

    4.5. If you have Alchemy or Engineering on your Enchanter, these can also be used to create materials to a lesser extent than the above.

    5. Unwanted quest rewards - No other profession can make use of these except to vendor. JCs can't prospect tunics for example.

    6. Random World Drops - You don't even need to be on your Enchanter to take advantage of these!

    7. Buying under priced items on the AH to DE.

    8. Group DE option - with the help of 4 other people you have the chance to increase your mats further!

    So, in total if you look at conventional crafting professions as "gathering" professions for Enchanting you have 8 different ways to get mats.


    Poor old other profs. Their demand for mats are focused on 1 profession!

    Jewelcrafting, Blacksmithing and Engineering all rely on ONE profession - Mining

    Alchemy and Inscription both rely on ONE profession - Herbalism

    Leatherworking relies on ONE profession - Skinning

    Tailoring is the odd one out since it requires no gathering profession for its main material, but can be supported with enchanting mats.

    So, when you think about it, Enchanters have access to more sources of mats than any profession. Period.

    Chin up guys!
    Last edited by mmoc59bc4f3926; 2011-02-09 at 07:58 PM.

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