1. #1

    Improving pvp skills

    Hey all,

    This is my first post, but I've been through the mmo warlock forums for some time. It seems like there are many knowledgeable warlocks who post here, so I was hoping some of you guys/girls can help me out. I've been playing affliction warlock since the end of BC and mainly focus on pvp. Since Cataclysm came out, I've been playing both affliction and demonology specs and had a great time pvping. To improve my game, I've been dueling different classes outside Org so I can get a better feel of what to do in situations where you have to think fast. I was dueling this frost mage who kicked my ass every time and I can't seem to beat him, even as affliction. He was kind enough to share his experience with me and told me that a good lock should never lose to a frost mage. There is definitely something wrong with my game and I was hoping someone could help point it out.

    This is how the duel usually goes:

    When the duel starts, my intuition is to put up the two insta dots, corruption and boa, and proceed with putting on tongues. I'll fake cast UA / Fear just to get him to CS me, which I succeed most of the time. But by the time I do this, he'll ring of frost where I placed my felpup and can free cast for a good 8 seconds. Although his CS is on CD, once I start casting UA --> Haunt he'll deep freeze me and start bursting. At this point, do I trinket his deep freeze or eat the burst? Or should I teleport away from him until my felpup is free to Spell Lock? If I don't trinket his deep freeze he'll burst me like crazy. When I do trinket his deep freeze he'll use his pet's frost nova to keep my in place and blink away, preventing me from fearing him. Since I'm snared and can't reach him, i'll dot up his elemental and soul swap it. Once he gets back in range, i'll get the soul swap on him and start casting haunt. Before it gets off he'll make mirror images and cancel my cast. By the time this happens his CS is off CD and so is his deep freeze. I fake case fear, get him to CS. After the CS, I'll get haunt up and he's finally fully dotted. However, this whole time he's shooting ice lance and getting my health down to 40-50%. Since I know his CS is on CD i'll fear him, but in the middle of casting fear I'm stunned for a short period of time (I'm not sure what mage ability allows them to stun me) and as soon as I'm done being stunned and start casting fear again he deep freezes me and bursts me down. Even if I get my felpup in range to cs him and get a fear off with full dots running on him he can trinket the fear --> iceblock, wotf the fear --> iceblock, or just straight up iceblock if he's taking too much damage. Most of the time I'm snared and can't get in range of howl. When I start casting drain life, he already bursted me so hard that I can't survive at that point (even after using my health stone).

    I know fear is an important cc, but I'm not exactly sure the exact right times to use it. Do I use it so I can get dots up on him? Or should it be used more after he's fully dotted? Should I be keeping CoT on him the whole time, even though he can remove curse while I'm in deep freeze and cast at normal speed?

    I've beaten frost mages before, but not really good ones. Granted he had an arena rating of 2500+ for 3s and was in full vicious, but I'm pretty sure I'm supposed to do a little better than I've been doing. I've dueled him both as affliction and as demo and do better with the latter (but I know I'll never beat him in that spec). I would greatly appreciate your feedback on this matter. Thanks!

    If anyone is interested my character name is: necrorobin US-Azgalor

  2. #2
    I have 3100 resil. I have come across many many frost mages. I usually beat 7/10 of them. The main things to remeber are.

    1. DO NOT get caught casting a spell.
    2. Fear, Fear, Fear. Use it to cancel big hitting spells when your pup is on CD
    3. Always trinktet deep freeze.
    4. Keep corruption on him and the pet.
    5. Only get UA and Haunt up when his CS are on CD to avoid lock out.
    6. Use soul swap to keep full dots on both him and your pet. No more casting except for fear/haunt/drain life
    7. Spam felfire 3000 hits - 8k crits are nice chunks of health.
    8. Use insta pet summon with void if you get low.
    9. Remember you have two fears
    10. Dont forget the infernal.

    Lastly, If you get him to Ice block and you know his CS is on CD. Drain his pet for free health. Also you will eat another deepfreeze after the iceblock. Save your spell lock!

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by necrorobin View Post
    . He was kind enough to share his experience with me and told me that a good lock should never lose to a frost mage. There is definitely something wrong with my game and I was hoping someone could help point it out.
    He's trolling you. Frost mages are very strong right now, and might actually get better after the patch, and they are very good counters to lock. Short casts times, IL spam, a pet that has additional awesome CC, ice block to wipe off dots, and blink make them very hard to kill in a one on one. No, I dont think a good affliction lock should beat a frost mage even half of the time. A frost mage with 4 keybinds should beat any class, all of the time.

    You dont seem to mention Deathcoil or Howl of Terror, and I know they share DRs and all, but are very useful for the instant cast. Other than that, your approach is sound, and you are describing exactly the annoyances any class that comes up against a frost mage has to deal with. I might try going all offensively...deathcoil at the start, fear right after, put up dots, spell lock when/if he trinkets, then nuke into fear into nuke into fear into nuke. I dont really worry about Tongues in this case cause he will IL quite a bit, I would probably go with Elements.

  4. #4
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by weezel View Post

    8. Use insta pet summon with void if you get low.
    is generaly a bad idea since the mage will just spellsteal the sac shield and it allows him to free cast.

  5. #5
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    I initially try to spam Searing Pain to get them to waste a counterspell. If they are smart and don't do that after a few casts I will try to juke them. If they are really pro and don't fall for that shit, all you can really do is hope that by keeping your dots rolling (irritating due to mage armor) and spamming fel flame will outdo their ice lance machine gun. You seem to be doing it right. Just remember once they have used their counterspell you have 24 seconds to spam fears and unstable afflic or even a banish on the pet.

    The bottom line is: don't feel bad losing to a frost mage. People who say Afflic should be Frost atm are obviously not experienced enough to have played against an actual good frost mage, or understand the mechanics between the two classes/specs. I have a Frost Mage and a Warlock, and I am a pretty good PvPer. On paper, a matchup between players of similar skill/gear would result in frost mage getting the win most of the time.

    ---------- Post added 2011-02-08 at 02:23 PM ----------

    A quick tip I should mention is: Know where your demonic circle is, and draw the fight a short distance from it (so that you aren't too close but still in range) and if he ice blocks, just teleport away and Soul Harvest. Once you are out of combat and start casting, you can have your pet get right back on him. He can try to evocate in response to this but you can just spell lock it. Suck it mages!

  6. #6
    Deleted
    Seems like you know your stuff quite well.. but i can't see how he could burst you, a warlock down so fast, even as a frost mage. Are you sure you had soul link & fel armor active during these duels? Remember if your demon dies, soul link will not reactivate automatically after a resummon.
    I have killed countless frostmages as affliction very easily using mostly the tactics you have. A little tip i can give you though... use soul link + teleport to get to him when he blinks away; this works for me all the time as i play a gnome so can escape those pet novas .

  7. #7
    Never forget to banish his elemental too Normally, if i can get UA, corruption, agony and CoT on him, you just drain life and trinket deep freeze. Oh! and i use my succubus too, so i can seduce him before a fear.

  8. #8
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Morogoth View Post
    Never forget to banish his elemental too Normally, if i can get UA, corruption, agony and CoT on him, you just drain life and trinket deep freeze. Oh! and i use my succubus too, so i can seduce him before a fear.
    You shouldn't really use banish in affliction vs frost duels unless you can be sure that the mage will soon use pet nova. Its better to use Corruption for the possibility of more heals. Also, Succubus is not a very good idea :P , def stick with the felhunter

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by It can be ANYTHING View Post
    You shouldn't really use banish in affliction vs frost duels unless you can be sure that the mage will soon use pet nova. Its better to use Corruption for the possibility of more heals. Also, Succubus is not a very good idea :P , def stick with the felhunter
    In this case, i think its just a matter of playstyle. Succubus + banish works well for me against them. And yes, i play against good frost mages.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by weezel View Post
    I have 3100 resil. I have come across many many frost mages. I usually beat 7/10 of them. The main things to remeber are.

    4. Keep corruption on him and the pet.
    6. Use soul swap to keep full dots on both him and your pet. No more casting except for fear/haunt/drain life

    Lastly, If you get him to Ice block and you know his CS is on CD. Drain his pet for free health. Also you will eat another deepfreeze after the iceblock. Save your spell lock!
    Or you could banish pet however it may be worth it to put corr on the pet instead for healz.
    Edit: Well I completely did not read the posts already talking about banish so disregard this lol

  11. #11
    I've found either casting immolate after instant dots are up when they expect haunt/ua for them to lock fire, or fake casting banish (cancel it because they normally freak out and CS you) work good.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If [the dps] are on the wrong target, then they are playing badly and should be corrected and / or mocked, depending on how you roll.

  12. #12
    Deleted
    http://felfire.com/guide/how-to-wreck-a-frost-mage-2/

    i thought this post was pretty good. after the patch also Mage armour is getting a well deserved nerf so keeping our dots up wont be as hard as it is now.#

    and the video is funny when the frosty actually just runs away during the second duel lol. mages pffff.
    Last edited by mmoc445f300130; 2011-02-09 at 12:18 AM.

  13. #13
    Thanks for all the helpful responses! I will definitely be incorporating some of the suggestions into my play style.

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