Guild scared of raiding, what are the very minimum gear reqs?

[Deleted]

The title says it all really. My guild is pretty casual but we do like to raid, though it seems since Cata no one even wants to try raiding without first having awesome gear.

I plan on leading 9 other brave souls on a wipe fest to beat the fear out of them.

So my questions to the community here are:

1) Which is the absolute easiest 'proper' raid (with trash and all) we should start on?
2) Guild is full of casuals and altaholics so I can't be a massive gear nazi .... what is the very minimum I should demand from their gear?
3) Are there any compositions I should aim for which may make things easier?
4) Any extra tips, advice...?

I know I could probably spend hours researching this but tbh I want help from the experienced community here, and any advice you can offer would be much appreciated.

[Deleted]

1) -
2) 346
3) Composition of good players, that'll make everything easier...
4) Patience is a virtue.

[Alianthos]

1) If you are THAT casual, you can start with Blackwing descent. Almost no trashes, and some boss here (Omnotron defense system, Maloriak, Magmaw) are decently challenging and fun, but not hard at all when you understand the basis. Bastion of Twilight's trashes can be a pain in the ass if not handled properly and Halfus isnt exactly an easy boss if you have poorly geared tanks and healers. Conclave of Wind (throne of 4 winds) is also a veeeery easy boss, but requires a good coordination and knowledges of techniques used.

2) Ask for 346 iLvL, some people can do extremely well with 330 iLvL though, but if you are not confident, go with 346. ASK THEM TO BE FULLY GEMMED / ENCHANTED, this is very important. Be strong on that point. Do not let people without gems come in your raid, you would pass a very bad message here.

3) Think of buffs, first. 1 druid = BoK, 1 paladin (1 healer would be nice) = the other blessing + magic resist aura (VERY important). A priest is good, Hymns, Buffs. Hunter, Mages and Warlocks are very good DPS in this extension, abuse it if you can. Do not bring too many melees. 1 should be enough, 2 is almost too much. Bring interrupts. Enh shaman do decent DPS, so do rogues, unholy DK. Tanks are fine whatever the class, bring the most geared.

4) Ask people to go and see videos (link them some Tankspot stuff from youtube). Ask them to bring food (a stack of 20, at least), and flasks, they should be pretty cheap by now. Bring some people willing to wipe and learn. Do not fear, 10m normal is very easy if you do it right.

And try to take it easy

[Tziva]

1. There are easier fights and harder fights, but unfortunately they aren't really all in the same raid. There is no clear "easier" raid. Probably the easiest fight to start with, in my experience, would be Magmaw, but I'd probably go do Halfus after him, not Omni.

2. "Mostly heroic gear." It doesn't need to be every last piece, and they don't need all the crafted epics, but they should be mostly in 346 gear from heroics or rep that is enchanted and gemmed, with at least cheapy gems/enchants. Early fights are usually a (mild) gear check to make sure a group is ready so, unfortunately, you can only be so lax with this unless you're dealing with really amazing players. In a super casual environment where maybe people haven't devoted time to one class to get amazing at it, or maybe don't bother with theorycrafter or spreadsheeting, you might want to err on the side of better gear to maybe balance out any, uh, rusty skills.

3. The better your buff coverage is (http://raidcomp.mmo-champion.com/), the easier it will be. Try to at least get the major ones. However, it's not worth it to bring poor players at the exclusion of good ones just to meet total coverage. You'll want to have interrupters and, as someone above mentioned, go light on melee.

4. Be patient. These fights require learning by any group, but for people who are maybe intimidated by new raiding challenges or don't have a lot of experience are going to have a more rough and painful learning curve. Use consumables like food and flasks; they add up.

[WackyWombat]

1.) I would rate Bastion the easier raid currently, aside from the very obvious Baradin Hold. Halfus is a very simple fight on normal that most people should have no issues picking up on after a few tries. There is a little more trash than BWD, but the trash is very easy in my opinion.

2.) Most of the bosses are more of an intelligence check versus a gear check, but I still wouldn't venture into any of the raids without mostly 346 gear and rep/crafted epics, especially if your guild is that afraid of raiding.

3.) As someone mentioned above, get the most optimal buff coverage you can manage and stay light on melee. Most of the fights are a lot more range friendly.

4.) Patience is your best friend in these raids. You will wipe, it is a guarantee. Some bosses will test you more than others. Keep a level head and watch for mistakes people are making that can be easily corrected. Getting upset after 3 wipes will almost assure that you get nowhere.

[Deleted]

@ The gearing part.

Some classes are more gear dependant then others. I have leveled up three alts now to 85, and raided with them all. What I can say is that, your tanks and healers should preferbly have heroic dungeon gear, however with some classes its not all the picky. My hunter started raiding BH with average 325, alot of greens, pulled 12.5k dps. I fixed some gear and started raiding with 334 average ( 333 bow ). I pulled quite competive dps ranging from 17k on some fights ( omnitron 50% damage ty ), to a general 15k on most bosses. Cleared 11/12 and was definately doing competetive dps with other players.

However, some dps classes do require alot more gear, so not saying this is the case for everyone.


Generally, coming gemmed and enchanted and knowing how to play you class goes a long way.

[wowplayer]

my guild has the same prob - i like it since it casual and fun but wish people are more open to raiding. yes there will be a lot of fail in the beginning but knocking down the boss will be just reward.

we have tried magmaw and halfus as they have been reported to be the easier bosses. unfortunately, our raid composition in magmaw was not ideal as we did not have a sham or druid for knockback of parasites - dps was a bit low for some people. in addition to that we had 2 melee dps. we may try tanking the parasites with 1 ranged burn them down. on halfus i think it was a tank and heal prob as we would wipe within the first 2 minutes every time. i think its a problem with heals more than anything else as most have recently switched to heals.

people are scared of fail. its a part of the game so whatever. gold is easy to make so repair costs associated with fail isnt that big of a concern. right now debating on joining another guild, faction change, or transfer to another server as we have about 5 people ready to try and 30 just sitting there. still would love to stay and work it out as i have been hanging out with most since i started playing last year.

i am not an officer in my guild but will probably start pushing for a simple "raid" like baradin hold. we tried it before and wiped - gear was an issue but also lack of raid awareness from the healers and some dps. plus some dps was around 6k. if you cant easily down this guy...you may not want to try the others.

[Tsipar]

Halfus and Magmaw are, in my opinion, the easiest to start out with. Halfus is pretty simple and Magmaw is too so long as you have someone who can deal with the adds.

[Deleted]

I know when we first went we were heavy on range dps, even our druid tank had boomkin os.

[Tharkkun]

We set an average equipped ilevel requirement of 340 when we started. That was a good number to shoot for. You can check this on the armory as the character screen averages all gear in your inventory.

Like stated above you should require everything to be enchanted, gemmed and everyone needs to flask and use the good food. If people give you grief explain to them that a 90 food buff is equal to a 346 - 359 gear upgrade and a flask is equal to 3 upgrades. Use your consumables.

Our attack order was Magmaw, Omnitron, Halfus, V&T, Conclave, Atramedes, Maloriak, Chimaeron, Ascendant Council, Cho'gall, Al'Akir and then Nef. This has worked well for us as we're starting Al'Akir this week.

I would recommend bringing 2 tanks, 3 healers and 2 melee, 3 ranged, or 1 melee 4 ranged. 3 Melee and 2 ranged will make some of these fights harder.

Last of all don't get frustrated. These bosses balance a lot of movement, target switching, etc all in one so it's a challenge until you feel comfortable with the fights.

Couple good guide sites are http://www.learntoraid.com (This is legit) and http://25man.com/cata-guides

[gibbie99]

1) BH is the easiest Cata raid. It is a straight dps check much like Patchwerk
2) Tanks should have 150k HP plus some avoidance, really ilvl346, heals should be about the same and be able to heal the fight for 5 minutes. Dps need 8.6 kdps (assuming tanks do 5k dps) to beat the enrage timer.
3) One druid or paladine, one lock or priest, one mage or shaman, all buffs that i think are essential. For this specific fight it does not matter, but in general you want a good AOE tank, a good single target tank, 1 raid healer, 1 tank healer, 1 additional healer (raid or tank), and an even mix of melee and ranged dps.
4) Food and watching the videos and having vent/dbm is pretty much essential, bare bones minimum. I don't take people who don't have vent, even if they claim they killed the boss 50 times. We need coordination. If you are really pro you don't need DBM but 99% of us do. Food is the cheapest buff you can get. Flasks are good but expensive. Worthwhile for progression though.

[flamejackal]

1) I think starting off with Magmaw and Omnotron are the best. Very little trash = more attempts at the bosses and both are very easy.
2) I know a few people were raiding with us and weren't even able to get into Heroics (some, including me, were even using greens for Heroic kills). I would consider the gear requirement for the two bosses above to be very low. Healer gear might matter a little more than others. Don't think of gear as a limiting factor though - don't blame gear if you don't get it the first few tries; just keep going at it.
3) Bring a holy paladin! They are amazing. Just ensure that you have enough AOE dps to kill Magmaw adds or a class that can kite them. You should only need two people to kill Magmaw adds. We had a lock and hunter take care of it but we have also done it with a hunter or DK kiting it.
4) Consumables go a long way. If you end up getting stuck try using more consumables. Make sure everyone has seen the fight play out before going in; it makes things much easier.

[Deleted]

Hi guys, great response and a lot of info to digest. I really appreciate you all helping me out, I'm going to plan the first raid within the next week

[Brroorr]

One tip i like to give new raiders and dungoneers is to sit back and try to understand the fight.
DPS and healing will increase once you understand the rythm and flow of a fight.
To get a boss down who people don't understand is just like rolling a dice.

[Gnomity]

I would make sure your raiders check out some videos on youtube as well just to see the fight before trying it. Magmaw is really easy as long as your ranged can get off the flame pillar. This week is a good week for Halfus, as the drake composition is pretty easy honestly. I haven't checked the table to see what next week's will be yet, but if it includes slate that adds a layer of complexity due to tank swapping.

Magmaw is fairly healing intensive during his non-exposes phases so I would encourage you to make sure you have good AOE heals for the fire damage that goes around (and resistance aura/totem - will help a TON). Conclave of the Winds is incredibly easy once you get the feel of it. We 2-shotted it our first time and only lost the first time because a tank fell off during a tank swap

[Sansnom]

Just how casual are your guildies? Are they having problems with heroics? Gear is important but how good is their play? They can be in the best gear but still do badly if they do not know how to play their class well and pay attention to what is happening during a boss fight.
If your guild has raided, which I assume you have, and is properly geared, mainly 346, and enchanted, just read up the fight and go in. The worse that can happen is a wipe, which happens to the best guilds in the game.

[Mammoth]

As long as your peeps have mainly 346 and have gemmed and enchanted it the best they can they're ready.

Halfus, 1st boss BoT is easiest, but after him it gets a bit more painful, so you might want to move on to BWD.

I would suggest: BH > Halfus > Wind Conclave > BWD.

There are the most bosses in BWD and the order of killing them is entirely your choice, unlike linear BoT. Personally, I find BWD the most fun.

[davesurfer]

Every group is different. Experiment.

We made everyone have all rep epics and 346s ( unless they had bad drops but we know they tried)

Start with Magmaw, Omnotron, Conclave and Halfus. Try them all and then puck one. I am reading all the suggestion above and they are a bit different due to experience. Our first kill was Conclave, yet it was the least killed on our server.

One thing we found helpful was a rest/ele shammy and a ret/holy pally. But DPS/heal combos are nice. This tier favors ranged so 2 melee is the max for ease. Like on magmaw we have our ret go holy and our rest shammy go elemental so we only have 1 melee. On Omnoton we 4 heal it. Why? Just makes it easier

BH is a DPS check. If you can't do that then you aren't ready

[junialum]

Instead of looking at gear I would suggest you ensure your raiders are able to pull of what many consider simple things but some casuals have difficulty with:

1. Interrupt cycles
2. Tank Swaps
3. Cooldown rotations / sync
4. Able to move well in a group when called for

If they can pull the above off with sufficient consistency you will find the following bosses doable with some patience:
Halfus, Valiona & Theralion, Magmaw, Omnitron, Maloriak, Atramedes, Conclave of Wind

[Xuany]

346 is gonna be that number you want your raiders to be in, make sure they look up the optimal gear build from Heroics/Rep to make sure they're are fully ready for raiding. Magmaw, Omnotron, and Halfus (being just as easy as Argaloth after patch) can be done quite easily, will you down it in the first few tries? probably not but they're doable and if your members are willing to put some time/effort into each fight you shouldn't have any issues. Also Conclave of Wind in Tower of the Four Winds is also quite easy. Most fights now days are more about execution than gear + execution was in Wrath.

My guild is casual as well, we have a few players who can easily make a raid every night but most people we have to switch out everyday. We've managed to almost clear all the content. The best thing you can do for your raid is to make sure everyone is ready for that fight ahead of time and that they've gone further with their class than just experience (i.e. reading tips, facts, other things about their class from forums)

I don't know much about your guild, sure hope I don't, but It can also come down to how well your group of casuals know each other. Do they know what each person can handle? Are they afraid to give constructive criticism if they're lacking or doing something wrong. The group of players I go with are completely comfortable with each other and we know what everyone can and can't handle. If you've never really raided with them before, be ready.