Holy: Power Torrent or Heartsong?

[Deleted]

That's something I've been trying to figure out for quite some time now. As a decent raiding Holy Priest I'm using heartsong right now but I see a lot of people running around with the Power Torrent enchant.

No matter how I look at it, it doesn't look like a good healing enchant:
-Regen-wise it seems to be much lower than heartsong which has at least a ~55% uptime.
-I simply hate +spell power proc. It's unreliable and can proc on phases when you just don't need it and then let you down when you need it the most. The only thing that makes me consider it as a healing enchant is that it's not +spell power here, it's +intell, so there's a small regen component here. Then again, if I only find the regen part really interesting, why would I pick an enchant that gives me less mana? I'd rather pick an enchant that allows me to throw 1 or 2 more PoH than on that may, if it procs at the right time, boost my healing.

Still, seeing almost every single healer around me pick Power Torrent makes me consider it as a viable, perhaps better option. It HAS TO be good somehow, right?
So, is there something I'm missing that makes Power Torrent a good regen enchant? Are other priests just gamblers? Am I the only one who actually manage to have 5k mana left at the end of a fight, WITH heartsong?

[Sinuhe]

It is not good regen enchant in any situation but it's good for healers when you have reached point that you won't go oom no matter what enchant you have. It's not just one enchant that makes regen, there's also buffs, replenishment, good usage of hymns & mana tide (use even before you go oom to have cd free soon again)

[Malania]

Mana regen isn't the beginning and end of the game. Typically you only want enough mana to last you until the fight ends. Having 5K mana at the end of the fight is wasted mana. Where as throughput does actually matter as fight damage increases, your throughput has to match. The only reason you'd typically not want to take Power Torrent is if you're having major mana issues or it's simply not viable for you due to requirements. I'm stuck in the second part, I don't have 10K to waste for a single enchant. Soon as Guild Bank starts handing out crytals, I'll switch because mana just isn't an issue for me anymore.

[lichslaped10]

i use heartsong i do not see how +spellpower is going to help atm mabie at the time of endgame raiding when we have the mp5 but not now keep heartsong

[Deleted]

I know how to use my mana cooldowns, that's not the point. When I say 5k mana left that's just to say I basically am out of mana at the end of a fight, as any healer should be.

My point is: throughput can be achieved for sure by throwing in 1 or 2 more PoH you'd have from more regen as said in OP whereas Power torrent procs are unreliable. So why would I pick something that is not reliable unless it the mana regen component is good enough to make up for the unreliability.

I couldnt find anything with actual numbers on the question and that's something I'm not good enough at to do myself without having smoke coming out of my ears.

[Docta]

If you have a power aura for PT (or some sort of notification) you can time it to coincide with fiend/hymn/possibly BE racial, it doesnt hit heartsongs regen level but it closes the gap - if you were factoring rapture for disc in itd pull ahead.

[Malania]

I know how to use my mana cooldowns, that's not the point. When I say 5k mana left that's just to say I basically am out of mana at the end of a fight, as any healer should be.

My point is: throughput can be achieved for sure by throwing in 1 or 2 more PoH you'd have from more regen as said in OP whereas Power torrent procs are unreliable. So why would I pick something that is not reliable unless it the mana regen component is good enough to make up for the unreliability.

I couldnt find anything with actual numbers on the question and that's something I'm not good enough at to do myself without having smoke coming out of my ears.

You're thinking purely on the basis of mana. What happens when you're above the point of running oom. Then healing becomes more important.

[Vook]

I've been using Power Torrent ever since I was in ~3/4 epics, haven't noticed a change in my mana regen since, and haven't gone OOM either.

[TwistedCross]

Mana regen isn't the beginning and end of the game. Typically you only want enough mana to last you until the fight ends. Having 5K mana at the end of the fight is wasted mana. Where as throughput does actually matter as fight damage increases, your throughput has to match. The only reason you'd typically not want to take Power Torrent is if you're having major mana issues or it's simply not viable for you due to requirements. I'm stuck in the second part, I don't have 10K to waste for a single enchant. Soon as Guild Bank starts handing out crytals, I'll switch because mana just isn't an issue for me anymore.

While I agree there's a threshold for every stat, healers do die unexpectedly sometimes. When that happens, I'm hoping everyone else in my raid spent their optional points in Regen, because 100 extra spellpower isn't going to do shit.

[G l o w y r m]

For Holy, Heartsong will net about 40-50 more mp5 than Power Torrent. Timing shadowfiend
with a PT proc will increase the regen benefits of that enchant. For Disc it’s much closer, with
Heartsong having about 10 mp5 advantage over PT. So with good shadowfiend management PT could be nearly
equal for regen.

That's from the EJ Disc Compendium. There's no math to go with it. With Holy Concentration lowered a bit the difference between them has been reduced slightly. The more SPR you have already the better PT will be also.

Everything else has been said already above.

[Malania]

While I agree there's a threshold for every stat, healers do die unexpectedly sometimes. When that happens, I'm hoping everyone else in my raid spent their optional points in Regen, because 100 extra spellpower isn't going to do shit.

Actually if you have to cover for a missing healer Spellpower becomes more important than regen. You need to be able to keep 2 people alive with a delay in healing for both. 1 healer's death doesn't generally put much of a burden on my mana, generally more on my ability to keep people alive because theres a drop in healing.

[Mazi]

Power Torrent is actually 500 intellect, not spell power (despite what wowhead says). Once I got 4pc T11 & an epic weapon I had 0 mana probs so I swapped over.

[Vook]

100 extra spellpower isn't going to do shit.

It's actually 500 Int, despite the tooltip saying "Spell power".

It's not a total no-regen thing, either. If you have Core of Ripeness (which you should, unless you have access to heroic jar or heroic fall of mortality), you can use ICD timers and time your Core of Ripeness to Power Torrent proc to gain a good bit of extra regen from it.

[Deleted]

Power Torrent is actually 500 intellect, not spell power (despite what wowhead says).

I know that, and included it in my OP.
My main problem with power torrent is its unreliabilty, more mana means more healing unless you just can't spend more than you are already spending. (as was the case in Wrath)

I don't have mana issues. I've been playing for long enough and know the encounters well enough to know exactly when I can afford to spend mana on a PoH or on a flash heal. But I do feel more comfortable having more mana than having a temporary boost over my healing that I have no control over. Now if the regen component of Power Torrent is important enough that I find it ok to drop Heartsong, I would take it in a heartbeat.
What I find strange is seeing so many healers switching to Power Torrent as soon as it became more widely available (when Maelstrom's price went down). It feels like I'm missing something in my evaluation of this enchant, other than the "hey look I'm doing just the same as the top priests, see how good I am?"

time your Core of Ripeness to Power Torrent proc to gain a good bit of extra regen from it.

Now that's something I hadn't thought of. I do know how to time hymn and shadowfiends and innervates and such, but I tend to underestimate the buff your spirit regen gets when your int goes up. Thanks for that!

[Mazi]

The mana regen you get from PT is slightly less than Heartsong but you gain a ton of throughput. It procs almost instantly once off cooldown so it's up every 45 seconds. Just track it on Power Auras and you can time it with other things.

And yes, don't forget that Int & Spirit increase your regen together, not necessarily one over the other. Our best stat hands down is Int so why wouldn't you want it?

I picked it up because I have the 4pc bonus which gives 540 spirit just about all the time so Heartsong was a little excessive now. I found that on Nef 10m I didn't even have to use my Shadowfiend....

[Maxpowr]

Until I get 4-pc (sadly the last piece I need for "cataclysmically epic" is my shoulders) I will stick with heartsong. When that happens, I will switch over to power torrent.

[Vook]

Now that's something I hadn't thought of. I do know how to time hymn and shadowfiends and innervates and such, but I tend to underestimate the buff your spirit regen gets when your int goes up. Thanks for that!

And if you're Disc, you can time Rapture procs with it as well.

[ZippyDoodle]

Power Torrent is actually 500 intellect, not spell power (despite what wowhead says). Once I got 4pc T11 & an epic weapon I had 0 mana probs so I swapped over.

That's 500 spell power....

[Mazi]

That's 500 spell power....

Yes but some people were saying "I don't need 100 spell power" or whatever not realizing that it's Intellect and not Spell Power proc.

[Kellytm3]

until you have an epic weapon,that you'll be using for awhile,dont get Power Torrent.