Enh shaman question

[Omegadark]

does lava lash dmg get affected by the 50% less dmg from off hands....

like... lets say a 1H does 100 dmg... will lava lash do the full 200 dmg or only 100 dmg because of the above...

if its not affected by the above will it be better to put my strongest 1H into my off hand slot instead of main hand like i normally do



also... Off topic... why is there 50 less dmg from off hands in the first place

[ellbot]

LL is a spell so i don't believe it is affected by the 50% reduction the same as melee attacks are.

[Omegadark]

i dont think its a spell it does physical dmg...

[blowcooldown]

Lava Lash does fire damage, Atleast that is what combat logs say it does. So it isnt affected by the 50% offhand reduction, not that it really matters if it does. It still hits for 50k+ crits.

[Omegadark]

Lava Lash does fire damage, Atleast that is what combat logs say it does. So it isnt affected by the 50% offhand reduction, not that it really matters if it does. It still hits for 50k+ crits.

ok... so my second question should i put my strongest 1H on off hand for lava or on my main hand for stormstrike ,etc?

[blowcooldown]

stormstrike uses both weapons, however having ur stronger weapon in ur offhand would be an overall dps loss since you only lava lash every 10 seconds, and you are auto-attacking about 5-7times in between cooldowns plus WF procs so put your higher dps weapon in your MH, for higher overall dps and take the VERY slight reduction in ur LL damage that really wont be that noticeable

[LyskaWF]

MH weapon DPS is still more important. Put the stronger in your MH. Once you get very high levels of mastery OH might come close, but you'd need to sim that.

[Redshirtdude]

Lava Lash does get affected by the offhand reduction. Any spell that uses the off hand does. This is why Lava Lash has such ridiculous high modifiers that buff it's damage (fully talented and glyphed, 300% offhand dmg + 40% for flametongue and twice this for 5stack Searing Flames).

[Omegadark]

Lava Lash does get affected by the offhand reduction. Any spell that uses the off hand does. This is why Lava Lash has such ridiculous high modifiers that buff it's damage (fully talented and glyphed, 300% offhand dmg + 40% for flametongue and twice this for 5stack Searing Flames).

it does? some1 just said it doesnt

[Seranov]

LL is affected by the 50% OH penalty. It just has so many multipliers that it doesn't really matter.

[Hungraa]

Reading the tooltips carefully (and assuming their wording is good):

Lava Lash does 200% of that weapon's damage, increased by 40% if your offhand has flametongue (which it always should). Hard to say if the flametongue bonus means 240% of the weapon's damage (direct +40% weapon damage), or 280% (a multiplier of the 200%, 200% * 1.4 = 280%)

Improved Lava Lash 2/2 increases it by 30% - 130%, depending on how many stacks of searing flame (0-5) you have up.

Finally, Glyph of Lava Lash increases the damage of Lava Lash by 20%.

My current understanding is that each of these effects are multiplicative, i.e.

200% * 1.4 * 2.3 * 1.2 = 772.8% of offhand weapon damage, which follows the special attack table, follows melee crit % chance, crits for double damage like melee attacks (unlike normal spell crits of 1.5x), and does fire damage (hence scales with mastery).

With my current gear setup, my mastery adds over 40% elemental damage, and I've seen many lava lash crits for over 50k, on targets that don't have special damage multipliers (like XT's heart or anything like that).

772.8% * 1.45 (estimate of my mastery multiplier) * 2 (for a crit) = 2241.12% offhand weapon damage, and I believe my offhand hits for over 2000, meaning I can crit a LL for over 50k, so I think the numbers check out.

My understanding is thus Lava Lash is subject to the offhand penalty, but more than makes up for it with its other buffs.

To answer your other question, even once you can fully benefit from a high level of mastery and 2/2 Imp Lava Lash, and often attack targets that you get consistent 5x Searing Flames stacks on, my stat weights from EnhSim still value the DPS on the mainhand weapon as more important, but the slowness on the offhand as more important (again due to Lava Lash scaling so hard from weapon damage).

You still always want both weapons to be as slow as possible, as a slow MH weapon helps windfury a ton also. Shoot for 2.6 or slower. If both of your weapons have similar weapon speeds, use the higher DPS one in your main hand.

Good luck,
Hungraa

[Omegadark]

Reading the tooltips carefully (and assuming their wording is good):

Lava Lash does 200% of that weapon's damage, increased by 40% if your offhand has flametongue (which it always should). Hard to say if the flametongue bonus means 240% of the weapon's damage (direct +40% weapon damage), or 280% (a multiplier of the 200%, 200% * 1.4 = 280%)

Improved Lava Lash 2/2 increases it by 30% - 130%, depending on how many stacks of searing flame (0-5) you have up.

Finally, Glyph of Lava Lash increases the damage of Lava Lash by 20%.

My current understanding is that each of these effects are multiplicative, i.e.

200% * 1.4 * 2.3 * 1.2 = 772.8% of offhand weapon damage, which follows the special attack table, follows melee crit % chance, crits for double damage like melee attacks (unlike normal spell crits of 1.5x), and does fire damage (hence scales with mastery).

With my current gear setup, my mastery adds over 40% elemental damage, and I've seen many lava lash crits for over 50k, on targets that don't have special damage multipliers (like XT's heart or anything like that).

772.8% * 1.45 (estimate of my mastery multiplier) * 2 (for a crit) = 2241.12% offhand weapon damage, and I believe my offhand hits for over 2000, meaning I can crit a LL for over 50k, so I think the numbers check out.

My understanding is thus Lava Lash is subject to the offhand penalty, but more than makes up for it with its other buffs.

To answer your other question, even once you can fully benefit from a high level of mastery and 2/2 Imp Lava Lash, and often attack targets that you get consistent 5x Searing Flames stacks on, my stat weights from EnhSim still value the DPS on the mainhand weapon as more important, but the slowness on the offhand as more important (again due to Lava Lash scaling so hard from weapon damage).

You still always want both weapons to be as slow as possible, as a slow MH weapon helps windfury a ton also. Shoot for 2.6 or slower. If both of your weapons have similar weapon speeds, use the higher DPS one in your main hand.

Good luck,
Hungraa

you sir just won the game... some1... give this man a medal...

[Seranov]

A fantastic response, Hungraa.

LL is so heavily modified BECAUSE it's an offhand attack, and it'd be pretty meh without all of them.

[Omegadark]

my last question... not sure if hungraa said this or not... but just to make sure

does the penalty apply before or after the bonuses...

im thinking before but can some1 confirm

[chuckpants]

question for you guys,

rng seems to hate me and never drop me an agi mace...none the less i have cookies mace which is the only 2.8speed one-hander in my OH for juicy LL crits, the dps is the same but the base damage is higher. Would this be better served in my MH for WF?

[Deleted]

Response is just sim it. Anyway on average, Cookie tenderizer usually sims better on OH. Just read the tooltip on LL. If you have no luck on agi drops, try to get a PVP MH (according to your race) and the Cookie tenderizer on OH. Enhs sim or SC should simulate very good results.

[Fornaw]

my last question... not sure if hungraa said this or not... but just to make sure

does the penalty apply before or after the bonuses...

im thinking before but can some1 confirm

Multiplication is commutative, ie first or last, doesn't matter you get the same result.

0.5 * (2 * 1.4 * 2.3 * 1.2) = (2 * 1.4 * 2.3 * 1.2) * 0.5

Honestly there is no other melee attack in game with such high modifiers. They are there to cancel out the offhand penalty.