7man groups

[Aernath]

hello there fellow players!

as an mmorpg player, at some point most of us get stuck with the pve aspect of the game and instance group construct.
you know, in wow, as a tank or a healer your chances of getting a queue from lfd tool is almost instant as a tank and very very fast as a healer.
but the dd/dps classes are waiting in lines killing time or doing excessive farming or something else, getting far from their focus of doing a dungeon, losing their appetite and so on...

so i'm going to be suggesting my own solution for this; also i'm expecting your thoughts and ideas too. it may be a well brainstorming for the future of games if someone peeks a point in our collaborative ideas some day.

my solution is;
forget 5man construct, change it into a 7man.
why 7?
6 won't make too much difference, 8 will be too much crowd. so 7 is just in the balance point.
also as the logic of the idea goes; there will be 2 more spots for dd classes, less wait time for them, faster groups forming, more buff, interrupter etc. versatility.

ofcourse there has to be a boss-fight arrangement needed for this to be executed. and there's a simple solution for that too; increase mob and boss hp's and add/adjust the enrage timer of bosses for extra dd players added. how this will be? think it like this, after some content patches you get overgeared for that instance right? and you deal more damage then before, it's almost like you have an extra player compared to your previous tiers of gear output. it will be exactly the same. but to adjust this boss/mob side, just added hp percentage and enrage timer will equalise the tier level of the content, it won't have to be adjusted then.

actually this logic has been done for 10-25 man raid compositions and heroic difficulties for some time you know. so the logic to apply is not that unknown to devs at all, just a different size and place. also just like that drop number shall be increased, since it will be pre-raid level or lower i guess no one will oppose an extra drop for our 7man construct, right?

since the number 7 is very close to 10, this should also be applied to the 10man raid composition with same benefits; increasing size to 7x2=14, same logic with extra hp to mobs and bosses, and to make 25man still interesting, its drops can be increased by 1, so 2x14 grp can get 3+3=6 drops by boss, 25man should get 7 drops, overall a faster gearing up for a crowded guild. or keep the 7man grp cell and make it a 28man raid to be equalised.

some downsides coming to mind; casual 10man raiders can oppose to this idea, but if you think about it, overall if you can find just 4 more friends to raid with you, you'll get more drops by run, faster gearing up, more satisfaction.

another; may come from devs btw, opposing to the gearing up speed of players. but it can be negligable when you compare it to the previous unsatisified bored customers' number, since most players play damage dealing classes, they will be happier, more busy with game, they will like you more ^^
by the way, technically i have no idea how impossibly hard or hotfixably easy this can be applied. but as a constructive idea i felt like sharing and here we go.

so what do you say? what are your ideas? (except rolling a tank or a healer ofc pls heh)

[Alskonda]

Think about it. How would a 25 man guild look at it? They just want to 35 man guild then?

[P4R45171K]

Uhhhhhhh no get over it, you want to play something that's a dime a dozen stuff like that happens.

[Yaney]

I don't like the idea. Why would they change something that works fine for years?

[Caelia]

Better solution to queues.
1. More people make tanks and healers would lead to faster queues for everyone since more tanks and healers in rotation.
2. People who keep failing should learn to play which would lead to faster dungeons which puts tanks and healers into rotation quicker.

Making 5mans in to 7mans would just lead to even bigger headaches for the tanks and healers, before they had to worry about getting 3 screw ups, now they have to worry about 5.

[Deleted]

I don't like the idea. Why would they change something that works fine for years?

Yes this.
There were never problems with finding tanks or healers.

oh wait....

[Aernath]

Yes this.
There were never problems with finding tanks or healers.

oh wait....

exactly!

---------- Post added 2011-02-19 at 05:41 PM ----------

Think about it. How would a 25 man guild look at it? They just want to 35 man guild then?

as i explained, they will convert into a 28man guilds, more drops per person, everyone happy ^^

[Sirjeize]

more QQ about ZOMG NINJA and more people to stand in badstuff. Also the revamping of Instances (again) and ballancing them out. to much effort to little reward basicly.

[Deleted]

exactly!

---------- Post added 2011-02-19 at 05:41 PM ----------


as i explained, they will convert into a 28man guilds, more drops per person, everyone happy ^^

Role a warrior dk, paladin, druid, shaman or preist, choose a healing /tank spec and need on dps stuff problem solved, at the first week of cat i had full tank/healer/dps gear from hcs. and i only ninjed a healing trinket.

[Aernath]

Better solution to queues.
1. More people make tanks and healers would lead to faster queues for everyone since more tanks and healers in rotation.
2. People who keep failing should learn to play which would lead to faster dungeons which puts tanks and healers into rotation quicker.

Making 5mans in to 7mans would just lead to even bigger headaches for the tanks and healers, before they had to worry about getting 3 screw ups, now they have to worry about 5.

well consider both the best and the worst scenarios for it, for example 5 nice guild members, or 5 pug guys from lfd, in both you'll have approximately same problems, not that much. compare it with 10mans of now as both a healer and a tank. not that much difference to create an extra headache then you have now; those are the aches of mmos generally, not a number thing, right?

[Abandon]

No. They are not going to completely redesign how every instance in the game works, making it even harder for Tanks and Healers to cover up for the mistakes the DPS make, just because you are too lazy to make a group yourself and don't want to actually wait.

[Deleted]

I really like the idea of 6 or 7 man groups. With the dungeon finder it wouldn't be hard to find people to make the extra few, it would even make it easier with helping with the tank/healer situation.
It would feel a bit more epic as well to have a 7 person dungeon.

[Maeleena]

Bad idea is bad, because now I would have to worry about 5 dps failing instead of just 3.

5-man groups is more than enough. 3-man groups would be better imo due to the decrease in the probability of getting fail in the group.

[PetersenIII]

hello there fellow players!

...

so what do you say? what are your ideas? (except rolling a tank or a healer ofc pls heh)

You cannot change the fundamental group size without altering raiding. 7-man 'dungeons?' That's most of a 10 man, why not just go run a 10-man raid? What they need to do is expand the 'dungeon finder' to include 10-man raids, not alter the size of what constitutes a 'group'.

[Abandon]

As a healer this is the worst idea to fix this "problem" I have ever heard. It basically means DPS want to make the game less fun for tanks and healers because they are selfish and want faster queues.

More damage from mobs and more people taking damage means the healer has to work even harder to keep the group alive, more people to need on healing and tanking loot to discourage people from bothering to do those roles, more mistakes, more arguments, and the only people it ever benefits are DPS who already have the easiest job in the game.

[Aernath]

more QQ about ZOMG NINJA and more people to stand in badstuff. Also the revamping of Instances (again) and ballancing them out. to much effort to little reward basicly.

we have these problems already, compared to overall person number satisfied, these are very easily adaptable.

[Abandon]

we have these problems already, compared to overall person number satisfied, these are very easily adaptable.

Having those problems already isn't an excuse for making them even worse and adding even more problems.

[Sirjeize]

Role a warrior dk, paladin, druid, shaman or preist, choose a healing /tank spec and need on dps stuff problem solved, at the first week of cat i had full tank/healer/dps gear from hcs. and i only ninjed a healing trinket.

And its pricks like that i dispise. i join a dps, wait 30 min and the tank runs of with my dps kit. And no i'm not whining. i join the que again run a different HC and get my gear elsewhere. just annoying at some points.

[Aernath]

Bad idea is bad, because now I would have to worry about 5 dps failing instead of just 3.

5-man groups is more than enough. 3-man groups would be better imo due to the decrease in the probability of getting fail in the group.

this summarizes the flames coming from tanks and healers. wanting 3 person to do a team work is being selfish compared to an offering and benefits of 7.

guys, don't think about the worst case scenarios. and this is an "mmorpg" idea to solve a statistically proven problem. i myself play both tank and healer too, i totally feel what you mean. but when you look from a wider angle this is really a positive idea, not just a dps candy at all. i personally prefer guildies when doing insts for faster and smooth runs and lfd pugs for levelling and farm. my idea about it won't change too, i wouldnt prefer a pug hc run too. but generally this idea keeps more people in the "team" and benefits them more, that was the origin of the idea from the start.
again, don't be selfish, be constructive when offering your ideas please ^^

[Maeleena]

this summarizes the flames coming from tanks and healers. wanting 3 person to do a team work is being selfish compared to an offering and benefits of 7.

Please explain to me why it is selfish to not have to hand-hold bad players, which 99% of the time are dps? I am not there to make your life easier, you are there to make mine easier, since my primary job is to keep the tank alive, not you.