Training dungeons?

[cleotaurus]

I had an idea that I think might address everyone complaining how the average wow player sucks at the game and doesn't know how to play their role/class.

What if blizzard created some sort of "training mode" dungeon that was basically just a scripted dungeon with AI controlled characters and you just filled in the blank role with your class. It would simulate normal dungeon fights and you could just continually practice the same scenario over and over without the running back from graveyard and rebuffing, listening to the party complain how you suck, etc.

The game would have to provide you with tips on where you failed if your group wipes (you didn't hold threat on all the mobs -> dps/heals die, -- you pulled threat off the tank/stood in fire/dps too slow -- you didn't heal the party fast enough, didn't use the right spell for right situation, etc) and then the game could follow up by telling you a good rotation to use if it was your lack of dps/cc, or tell you what to avoid if you stood in fire, or what healing spells to use in the situation that you couldn't keep up, and what abilities to use to tank properly.

the 5mans while leveling are supposed to be a primer for 85 dungeons but these things are just such a joke because blizzard is afraid of turning off the player base if they are too hard, so now they are just useless for teaching anyone anything because you can just faceroll it.

It just seems there is a divided line between players, the elitists who have played the game for a while or spend a long time outside the game learning their class - and the casuals who haven't played long and can't be bothered with "l2play" yet still want to be able to complete endgame content.

The game as it is really doesn't provide any sort of way to teach players to prepare for end game dungeons. You go from normal dungeons which are just a joke and require no skill at all to heroics which are relatively way harder, and no medium in between to teach players how to do stuff.

[capnscoob]

5 mans pre 80 do that it's just a matter of the bad people realizing they suck and improving personally a quick look at general rotations on EJ and a dew normal dungeons should be enough to make you compitent the only thing that could be implemented is a rotation guide but I doubt blizz could come up with an optimal rotation to save there ass.

If that's to hard then the better you practice the better you get if your not a forum follower

And I'd you wish to be completing end game chances are you are looking up strats or someone in the group is so tere is no excuse for not using the interweb

[cleotaurus]

The problem is for someone who is just completely new to an MMO at all, leveling to 85 requires like 3 buttons really, and all of those "extra" spells I am willing to bet don't even go on a players bar. I mean seriously when does a mage need to use polymorph before 85? Every dungeon before 85 can be facerolled, healer classes can heal in dps specs, and they can keep the group up with like one heal every 10 seconds, so no skill is really needed there. Dps classes all they need to do is spam buttons on anything, if they pull threat it doesn't even matter because the mobs hit like noodles. I mean tanks aren't even necessary in any leveling dungeons. When I play my warlock now at 30, instances feel more like a diablo2 dungeon crawl where everyone is just spamming their shit to blast the mobs and collect loot. Sure its nice to have a barbarian in front soaking hits but he isn't even really necessary.

But then you get to heroics and everything you learned goes out the window and you have to actually figure out what your other 20 spells actually do. You have to learn why spamming regrowth is a bad idea because you will go oom, you have to learn how to use efficient heals during low damage and how to get the most throughput during high damage. You have to learn that moon means you are supposed to polymorph on the pull, and re-cc when it breaks. You have to learn that you can't just dot up every mob in the room regardless if the tank is ready or not.

Meanwhile though all these learning experiences you are making countless graveyard runs, pissing off a whole bunch of people who are gonna tell you to l2play, and probably kick you, etc. Sure a whole lot of trial and error will get you there eventually, and a bit of reading on EJ will get you there a lot faster - but how many players even know that EJ exists? How many do you think are really going to consult outside sources to learn to play better? How many do you think will try to access the games help menu or read the manual that came with cata to l2play? Cause that shit is completely useless. Its kind of stupid that most of the endgame content requires consultation of outside sources to learn how to beat. But I don't agree that it needs to be easier, I just think the game fails at giving an appropriate learning curve, and the playerbase seems to just think that 90% of wow players are completely retarded and ignore the fact that the game doesn't do shit to help you l2play.

[ohshift]

yeah, lets put a training mode with AI, because this is totally a single player game right

[cleotaurus]

yeah, lets put a training mode with AI, because this is totally a single player game right

ok you completely fail at reading comprehension, thanks for the constructive comment

[capnscoob]

The learning curve is extremely shitty especially for the super casuals, most people who play any video games can figure it out, but hell I do know an in game training would be better. I pulled my hair out trying to explain my to my girlfriend how to play a hunter and that would be nice but at this point there is so much exterior reference points that an introduction is useless in blizzards eyes. Also with the buffs to LFD and their reliance on experienced players to teach or just tell people they blow there is no reason to.

The practice for a DPS rotation on dummies would e useful as even experienced people use them.

Your point is valid though for neding it and I do believe they expected the cata normals to be their middle ground but hell the hardest pull on cata normals is the VP with the little electric shield and the mobs that path into them and that involves one CC and maybe a silence if the shit hits the fan.


Also if a NPC training was implemented there would prob be a huge request for NPC raids and most Likly kill this game and make it an rpg not an mmo. I know I for one as a progression raider in classic would have loved to have it based off my actions and not 39 other retards who can't learn a mechanic in two wipes

[Mackeyser]

@cleo, I totally agree. I had the same idea about 3 years ago. Especially with running quests (the quests that update without running back to a quest giver inside a dungeon) and the new tech, having a training dungeon like at level 50 or so so folks have a decent amount of spell choice/threat generators/attack moves.

A tutorial dungeon would be a fantastic idea.

@capnscoob I think you're way, way off base. The whole point is target those who wouldn't ordinarily look at forums or other exterior sources. My wife is a prime example. She's never read a forum. Ever. Thinks the idea is bassackwards. She's the very definition of a casual player.

Also, players are on the whole not very good teachers. They aren't terribly patient or kind nor do they take the time. All too often (not always, but all too often), folks will simply point out what a player is doing wrong and that they need to L2P in generally unkind terms. Sometimes leveling guilds can help with this, but again, that's a crap shoot.

Lastly, there is ZERO equivalency between a dungeon training tool and a solo raid experience. Remember, the training dungeon wouldn't drop any loot other than likely getting quest rewards for completing certain portions. This isn't about not wanting to be with people. This is about learning how to play one's class. They've had class quests before. The quest chain for Benediction/Anathema was along those lines, although that was sort of a final exam for priests, if you will.

The goal is for all players to be better so that more players can interface on a higher uniform level at endgame and proceed farther. LK's answer was to make everything too easy. Cata solved one part. The other part is player training. Considering that they don't make world mobs that require more than 2 buttons even at 85 (sort of a mistake imho), it seems that dungeon training would be helpful and Blizz now has the tech to make it fun, interactive and exciting.

[starkey]

EJ is not be all end all, there other places newbies can visit and newbies shouldnt have to worry about EJ until they hit 80 onwards
What people need to be doing is looking what instance there doing and read on encounters, ffs had a nexus run not 10mins ago and the tank didnt know the way and had to get someone to point him in the right direction until someone told him use your fucking map dumbarse,and this is nexus daily normal btw,then last boss he dies because he stands still and lets the debuff wear him down while the healer is trying to keep a bloody dps mage up for some stupid reason, then asks for a recount thats what really grinds my gears people are more worried about how much dps there doing, i said recount doesnt mean anything if your standing in fire.