RIP Body & Soul

[Siri]

This is just... wow

[Alta87]

This is on a test realm, I'm guessing they put it very low on purpose to see how much it affects the players. When they see it not beeing used at all they will probably try a higher % for it. (If not, Priests got screwed =P )

[Kaysha]

I guess I better start to plan ahead for a new spec build. I know, it's PTR and all, but it pays off to be prepared .

[blackone]

I think this change is intended, and here to stay.
Because of their stupid 10man focus, Blizzard does not want any spec to offer something that nobody else offers. Having B&S is a pretty awesome thing in some Encounters (i.e. Atramedes), so it gets nerfed. That's the same reason they spread all the buffs around, removed some of them and homogenized all the rest. It's also the reason I am sure we are gonna see a Manatide nerf sooner or later. (That whole 'bring the player not the class' thing is absolutely impossible to realize though, class dependency happens because of specific, pretty normal abilities most of the time, like PW:S on Lich King)

The funniest thing about this is how they respond to critics.
If there's gonna be a lot of crying about this change, they're gonna post something like "Your raid shouldn't bring you for your ability to speed up people, but for how awesome you are". If you follow that logic, whithout being able to speed up people, you won't get your raid spot. Yay! That's what we want!

[Ynna]

I'm just going to copy and paste what I said in the other thread:

First of all, note that this is a datamined piece of information, and a lot can still change before 4.1.
I think this is either a PvP change, which strikes me as odd, since Holy Priests don't have a high representation in PvP. Others options are that Holy Priests are being brought specifically to certain fights to give people speed bubbles, making some fights a lot easier. Don't really think it's this, since the only fight were it is really, really useful is Atramedes, where it isn't really trivializing the encounter. The last thing I can think of is that they will change it (if they end up actually changing it) so that the talent isn't considered mandatory anymore, which seems pretty lame to me. Blizzard has stated that they want Holy Priests to cast Power Word: Shield, so I don't really understand it. Blizzard have their reasons behind changes like this, so I'm sure we will hear about it.

I'm more concerned and confused about the change to Dispel Magic.

And I'd like to add that I am VERY interested in what Blizzard Has to say about this. Like I said, they probably have their reasons, but I don't really understand it. Body and Soul is one of the few things that make healing fun for me anymore, and is a powerful ability, but by no means overpowered.

[Siri]

* Leap of Faith no longer functions inside raid instances, raids were bringing priests to help kiting in the air phase on Atramedes. This goes against our "bring the player, not the class" philosophy.

[InstantPoM]

I for one can't really see the reasoning behind this. It was a very nifty ability, but certainly nothing gamebreaking. I very much doubt they change this because of the one encounter B&S actually gives you an edge (atramedes), since let's be honest, that will be outdated content once this patch hits.

If they're nerfing this because it gives a raid with a holy priest in it greater mobility, why don't they just change it so that it only gives a speed increase when cast on the priest itself? That way it would work like a temporary ghost wolf.

[blackone]

I very much doubt they change this because of the one encounter B&S actually gives you an edge (atramedes), since let's be honest, that will be outdated content once this patch hits.

Maybe there is an encounter in T12 where B&S helps in a similar matter.

[Deleted]

Ogrimmar speed is important

I dont agree that "it's dead" but certainly sucks to see go from a pve perspective.

Time to max out even more on those atramedes grips ladies and gents!

[Omgabear]

I really hope this won't be in the final patch.

This is very unneeded and even more unwanted. Just because B&S was the reason i casted PW: S in the first place!
Also, not for this thread, but the PW: Shield duration is also an abomination!
Just... wtf?

[zenkai]

The speed boost is really helpful in some PVE fights, a nerf would really suck

[Minto44]

I dropped the Body and Soul talent from my spec when they took away the mana reduction on shields from it. No point in spending 7k mana for a small speed increase, my guild doesn't fail at moving anyway. I just hope this change will make more people spec out of it so Blizzard can get rid of the talent altogether and give us something new.

[Ynna]

I dropped the Body and Soul talent from my spec when they took away the mana reduction on shields from it. No point in spending 7k mana for a small speed increase, my guild doesn't fail at moving anyway. I just hope this change will make more people spec out of it so Blizzard can get rid of the talent altogether and give us something new.

Why should Blizzard get rid of the talent? It's a good talent as it is right now. And maybe your guild, never ever ever fail at moving, the speed increase is awesome on a lot of occasions.

[[-Spiritus-]]

The "T" in PTR stands for "Test." We are unaware what challenges T12 brings and, perhaps, the designers thought of some neat ideas for encounters that, when a 60%, short duration, short/no CD, target-able sprint is introduced, trivializes these challenges. So, instead of starting the PTR with 60%, then "nerfing" it to 55%, then 40%, then buffing it to finally be 50% by the end of the PTR. They start it at 25% and do "Testing" with the talent to see how high the sprint can be without trivializing the mechanic, bumping the % up each patch until they dial it in. This way the talent isn't getting "nerfed" with each build, but getting "buffed" from what it was on the PTR release.

Or this may be a PvP change, which, I could only have really seen be a serious balance issue in CtF type rated BGs with certain very specific strats.

Overall, from a communication standpoint, however, "B&S % speed increase going up by 5 in next build" is better press than "B&S is getting another 5% speed hacked off this week again."

[KieraDK]

Why should Blizzard get rid of the talent?

Because if it goes live at 12%/25% I doubt many people would spec into it. I won't, I'd rather go for Rapid Renewal than 25% speed increase that costs 7k mana

[Deleted]

Why should Blizzard get rid of the talent? It's a good talent as it is right now. And maybe your guild, never ever ever fail at moving, the speed increase is awesome on a lot of occasions.

I have to agree with Minto44, at this rate we'll be back to WotLK state, where no one takes this talent. Except than we just had no free points and now it will be inferior to others. In most cases you won't even notice the 25% more movement speed and in most cases it won't even save you from one extra tic.

As someone said before, BaS was the only reason to cast shields as holy and with the duration reduction on shields we should not use them at all and leave it to disc, since now they will only bubble people that will take damage in next few seconds.

And if right now we are arguing among the priests in raid on who will go disc for this fight (if we need one), I can see in 4.1 us choosing who to make holy now >_>

[Raldazzar]

Doesn't aspect of the pack daze you if struck? Not very useful in combat. And why on earth are you dragging Crusader aura into this discussion?

Because the person HE quoted had said 'you are the only ones who can MOVE/speed up other friendlies!'... hes not 'dragging' anything, hes correcting the person quite rightly.

[Jantasir]

I think this change is intended, and here to stay.
Because of their stupid 10man focus, Blizzard does not want any spec to offer something that nobody else offers. Having B&S is a pretty awesome thing in some Encounters (i.e. Atramedes), so it gets nerfed. That's the same reason they spread all the buffs around, removed some of them and homogenized all the rest. It's also the reason I am sure we are gonna see a Manatide nerf sooner or later. (That whole 'bring the player not the class' thing is absolutely impossible to realize though, class dependency happens because of specific, pretty normal abilities most of the time, like PW:S on Lich King)

The funniest thing about this is how they respond to critics.
If there's gonna be a lot of crying about this change, they're gonna post something like "Your raid shouldn't bring you for your ability to speed up people, but for how awesome you are". If you follow that logic, whithout being able to speed up people, you won't get your raid spot. Yay! That's what we want!

if you think, for one second, that a holy priest is going to lose their raid spot due to this change (pending it actually happens in the first place) then you sir/ma'am.. need to rest the crack pipe for just a bit longer.

[TwistedCross]

I will also quote this in hopes more people read it. Datamined information is datamined. Early PTR build is early.

I'll also quote this from obvious Wrath Babies. Not sure what game you guys have been playing. The nerfs are rarely adjusted during PTR. It'll go live. Then they'll nerf it even worse. I'll predict 10%/20%

[Ynna]

The "T" in PTR stands for "Test." We are unaware what challenges T12 brings and, perhaps, the designers thought of some neat ideas for encounters that, when a 60%, short duration, short/no CD, target-able sprint is introduced, trivializes these challenges. So, instead of starting the PTR with 60%, then "nerfing" it to 55%, then 40%, then buffing it to finally be 50% by the end of the PTR. They start it at 25% and do "Testing" with the talent to see how high the sprint can be without trivializing the mechanic, bumping the % up each patch until they dial it in. This way the talent isn't getting "nerfed" with each build, but getting "buffed" from what it was on the PTR release.

I'm not disagreeing with you. It is a Test, and it wasn't information published by Blizzard, so you can't blame them for communicating this.
But if an encounter is trivialized by Body and Soul it is trivialized by a myriad of other class abilities. An aura around the boss that prohibits any kind of movement increasing effect might be inelegant, but it is effective. Nerfing an ability that is fun, interesting and makes Holy cast a spell it would never use otherwise for just one (or maybe two) fights isn't doing it for me. Especially when that ability is working very hard for making Holy PvP viable.
So I don't think it's a change for one fight. Blizzard deemed Body and Soul too powerful for some reason, and I'm interested in why.

Or this may be a PvP change, which, I could only have really seen be a serious balance issue in CtF type rated BGs with certain very specific strats.

I play Holy PvP, though not in rated BG's, and Body and Soul is one of the reasons that Holy PvP worked. Reducing the movement increasing effect will lower the representation of Holy Priests in PvP even more.