[Priest] State of Shadow - 4.1.0

[gaymer77]

Yes but those classes also GAINED the ability to remove magic (sans pally who got it back) with the 4.0 talents as long as they were healing spec. Pallies lost the ability to remove magic off friendly targets all together unless they were holy. They didn't lose the ability to cleanse friendly targets while keeping the ability to cleanse themself. THAT is where it doesn't make sense. Whether you can see why it was "needed" or not doesn't change that it makes absolutely no sense. Priests suddenly didn't become OP because they were able to remove sheeps off their healers if they were shadow the same way that ret & prot pallies weren't OP in Wrath because they were able to cleanse sheeps off their healers when they had the ability to remove magic off friendly targets.

[Ceodoc]

Most of the posts so far really pertain to pvp problems vis a vis dispells.

I hope you do not mind me mentioning firstly the very important re emergence of bugged mind flay, especially as it is not only our filler, but now so important to all our dots/burst &
secondly Orb RNG.

Why here, because unless we highlight it regularly we could wait many patches until it is acknowledged; again. And seeing as I think the fan base's best theory crafters do more work than Blizz would admit to. It pays to display.

So in priority order.

1) Mind Flay 3rd tick.
If you are a raiding SP, please go through your logs and check MF casts vs hits, whether you use non channel macros, timers, MFclip, whatever. Many of you will find the 3rd tick of MF missing. And I do not mean "missed", I mean vanished.
When you consider that a missed tick, has knock on effects to orb generation, fiend uptime, Dak Eve uptime, MB damage through orb generation, you can understand how important this is.
It is believed to be something to do with latency and the MF debuff to target, we actually had this problem way back in Naxx, finally resolved midway through Ulduar.

2) Orb RNG
Well argued & documented reasons for giving us even just 1 cd to generate 1 orb. We remain the only (dps) class with a rng proc for mastery benefits, fair enough it makes for fun play, but the lack of an orb early on has such an impact on our overall dps, we need an ability to make even just 1 orb per fight, someway.

Posted here as I say, because these massively important issues have not been addressed so far for 4.1, if we do not voice now, we could put up with this going into Deathwing, which would be Ulduar all over again.

Constructive feedback & critique very welcome.

Cheers,

Doc

[Kelesti]

THAT is where it doesn't make sense.

It makes sense from the context that "Only healers should be dispelling magic". Giving the others the ability to dispel magic is again healers only.

Elemental Shaman still don't have Diseases or Poison. Ret paladins can't cleanse CC off their partner. It makes sense.

Priests suddenly didn't become OP because they were able to remove sheeps off their healers if they were shadow the same way that ret & prot pallies weren't OP in Wrath because they were able to cleanse sheeps off their healers when they had the ability to remove magic off friendly targets.

CC reduction talents have been revoked. All non-healers (except shadow priests) lost the ability to remove magic from allies.

weren't OP in Wrath

I'm going to stop you right here. This isn't Wrath. In fact, 3/4 of the changes made to Cataclysm are Blizzard's way of saying "Sorry we fucked up so much in Wrath"

CC "means something" instead of just spam cleansed away, especially on a healer. CC "means something" when burst isn't the only way to win/lose a game anymore.

What needs to happen is Cure Disease goes back to being castable in Shadowform. But Shadow losing the ability to defensively dispel off allies isn't really going to break your PvE game, sorry that you feel that way.

[Cynsation]

I'll certainly miss Dispel Magic on Maloriak. =/

[Kelesti]

I'll certainly miss Dispel Magic on Maloriak. =/

Why? Dispel magic still works.

[Deleted]

Aye, it's just a minor inconvenience. Oddly in PvE it's more of a nerf to healers than shadow priests.
For example Baradin hold, I assume you all know it. All that dispelling... If I'm shadow there I usually throw out a dispell or 2 to save some healing mana, from my experience healing mana is more of a concern than a little DPS, especially as dispell is supposed to be a significant of mana (i'm sure i remember them saying that...).

Overall it's not a massive nerf to anyone since we still have mass dispell, unless that's being changed in the same way

[Abandon]

I doubt it would have a massive effect in PVE considering if we really need to, we can use Mass Dispel in those situations. Baradin Hold is a great example actually, in 10man there are three debuffs thrown out, so if two land on your group you can MD them off your side. You could probably get all three depending on how close you are standing to the other group. In any case, it won't be any more difficult for healers than if they happened to not have a Shadow Priest with them in the raid that day.

[Deleted]

Whatabout the 10% Shadow Dmg Nerf?

[Aica]

The one that's already live? What about it?
People like you make me love coming here -- Kel

[Cynsation]

The 10% nerf has been in for a while now. They just have to patch in order to update the tooltip, which still shows the old value.

[gaymer77]

I doubt it would have a massive effect in PVE considering if we really need to, we can use Mass Dispel in those situations. Baradin Hold is a great example actually, in 10man there are three debuffs thrown out, so if two land on your group you can MD them off your side. You could probably get all three depending on how close you are standing to the other group. In any case, it won't be any more difficult for healers than if they happened to not have a Shadow Priest with them in the raid that day.

The problem with Mass Dispel is that not only does it have a cast time but its a huge mana cost so its not a "fix" to the nerf. And has anyone actually been on the PTR to see if Mass Dispel removes magic off friendly targets for shadow?

[Kelesti]

The problem with Mass Dispel is that not only does it have a cast time but its a huge mana cost so its not a "fix" to the nerf. And has anyone actually been on the PTR to see if Mass Dispel removes magic off friendly targets for shadow?

Mass Dispel hasn't been touched, just like Singe Magic hasn't been touched (which has limitations of its own, so I don't want to start a this vs that argument here)

[worsthitmanNa]

I agree with the changes our d dispel was op but if blizzard makes it so dispel clears diseases and magic effects i would willing accept this patch. Btw a snare would be nice but probably not gonna happen. i mean a snare like curse of weakness(not gonna happen but it would be nice).

[KieraDK]

we need an ability to make even just 1 orb per fight, someway.

Yes we do.
I think that it should be tied in with SW: P in some way.
Like:
Improved Shadow Word Pain - Increases damage of your Shadow Word: Pain spell by 3% and causes you to gain one Shadow Orb when placed on an enemy target

There's no need to re-apply SW: P at all during a fight unless you need to switch targets and can't keep it refreshed on the first, and then you'd need Empowered Shadows up before putting dots down anyway.

An issue could be because it's Tier 1 Shadow tree. But they could also tie it in with Shadow Orbs Mastery as a passive effect.

Thoughts?

[Deleted]

I doubt it would have a massive effect in PVE considering if we really need to, we can use Mass Dispel in those situations. Baradin Hold is a great example actually, in 10man there are three debuffs thrown out, so if two land on your group you can MD them off your side. You could probably get all three depending on how close you are standing to the other group. In any case, it won't be any more difficult for healers than if they happened to not have a Shadow Priest with them in the raid that day.

I can tell you that it will have a massive effect in at least one PvE fight... ten man Sinestra.

At present my guild is banging their collective heads against the brick wall that is phase 3 of this fight. We run with just two healers, because the dps requirement in P3 is insane on ten man, and I solo dispel the wrack during phase 1 and 3. Its a tough job with the environmental challenges (read irritating whelps and big purple balls) and boss AOE breath dmg to keep up timely dispels and dps effectively. We could take three healers to the fight, to cover the dispels, but then we'd never make the dps race in P3. Removing shadow priest dispels may make this (already-ridiculously-untuned-imbalanced-on-10-man-compared-to-25-don't-mind-me-I'm-not-bitter-at-all-about-lack-of-tuning) fight virtually impossible .

[Naxcis]

Just a bit peev'd mages get a Shadowform with no drawbacks

[Abandon]

Just a bit peev'd mages get a Shadowform with no drawbacks

You mean they get 15% damage reduction to physical attacks as opposed to our 15% damage reduction to all damage when wearing Frost Armor, meaning they give up the Crit and Crit Reduction from Molten Armor and the Magic effect reduction and Regen from Mage Armor? With no bonus to their damage, of course.

But yeah, apart from that there's no drawbacks...

[Deleted]

Clearly blizzard are just removing every bit of what made classes special making it flat out the same shit if you play mage lock shadowpriest ^^

---------- Post added 2011-04-09 at 11:45 PM ----------

You mean they get 15% damage reduction to physical attacks as opposed to our 15% damage reduction to all damage when wearing Frost Armor, meaning they give up the Crit and Crit Reduction from Molten Armor and the Magic effect reduction and Regen from Mage Armor? With no bonus to their damage, of course.

But yeah, apart from that there's no drawbacks...

Yeah mages surely need to whine that they get some buffs since we shadowpriests are rocking them all to the ground ^^

[chase_the_mofo]

I run arround in full vicious gear, and pay attention to this. I pop trinket +1600 sp, I put 3 dots on running target in pvp gear also in Alterac Valley, and he's gone. Yes he's preety much allive running he can toss one hot up, mount up and just ignore. WTF?
Also one more thing, dispelling our dots. No punishment(lock dots dispelled = 5sec silence while we get 2 sec fear if target that dispels it is 10 yards from you or less)
That needs buff. PVE dmg of shadow priests is more then fine really, but pvp wise we're not that competative at all.

[Deleted]

Dont like these changes at all. We are becoming more and more like affli locks (Beware the summonable Shadowfiend) and losing the uniqueness of being a shadow priest. We used to bring the friendly dispel to the table, after the patch I think it will hit shadow pretty badly to the guts.