1. #1
    The Lightbringer Azerox's Avatar
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    Few PvP Sub Qeustions.

    Hello,

    I have recently started to play my Rogue again, mainly as PvP.

    Made this Rogue for fun some time ago, and never rly did raids/bg's etc with it.

    Just dinged 85 yesterday, playing Assasination

    But now i see and read that Sub is the nr1 PvP spec, but that spec is the only spec i have NEVER played.

    So what i would like to know :

    Does anyone know a good page where i can read up about sub PvP? (been looking arround but cant find anything rly usefull).

    Also where does sub open with, and in what situations do u use the Sub specific skills? (open with Backstab?)

    What sort of rotation, or more priority does Sub use?

    What poisons do i use on MH/OH/Trow in PvP? (same as Assasination?)

    There is probably some topic arround here wich i cant find and has this information.

    I hope someone can help me along the way, still doing great with Assasination in BG though.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by Azerox; 2011-03-10 at 07:53 AM.

  2. #2
    Immortal Evolixe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morthas View Post
    So what i would like to know :

    1. Does anyone know a good page where i can read up about sub PvP? (been looking arround but cant find anything rly usefull).

    2. Also where does sub open with, and in what situations do u use the Sub specific skills? (tips please )

    3. What sort of rotation, or more priority does Sub use?

    4. What poisons do i use on MH/OH/Trow in PvP? (same as Assasination?)

    Thanks!
    Numbered em for you to make it easier.

    1. I can't give you the answer you want but.. Go up against a good rogue on your realm, ask him for advice on situations and simulate them in durotar/outside SW or something to practise.

    2. Entirely depends on the situation... Usually garrote vs casters and cheap vs melee. But i also sometimes open with ambush if the target is already fighting or simply trying to run away. As it reduces armor and gives quite a blow+nice amount of CPs.

    3. Please don't talk about rotations in pvp.. they are nonexistant..

    4. Wound/Crip/Crip
    or
    Mindnumb/Crip/Crip

  3. #3
    Very rough and quick guide:

    Sub's role is control and clutch-damage.
    If there is an Enrage, you Shiv it.
    Be prepared to use defensive CDs (Evasion, Combat Readiness particularly those two) very liberally.

    Never evasion and CR at the same time

    Macro Premeditate to Ambush Garrote and Cheap Shot, if you took the talent
    /cast Premeditation
    /cast AbilityName
    Set up your ShadowDance bar to have a Focus Sap macro, a sap, Ambush, Cheap Shot, Garrote, Kick, Focus Kick, Shadowstep and Prep

    Be able to use Eviscerate in ShadowDance

    Have non-kill player CCed somehow (Blind, Deep Freeze, Poly, w/e) Kidney shot Kill Target->Smoke Bomb->Shadow Dance ambush to 5 eviscerate Cheap Shot as come out of Kidney Shot, Sap other player coming out of the CC while in Shadow Dance

    Use Vanishes liberally. Vanish->Sap as player comes out of another CC is an amazing CC chain.

    Keep recuperate rolling no matter what

    Vanish and hide around to let recup tick, and peel with Shadowstep cheapshot

    Against Warriors and Hunters: Premed Ambush Hemorrhage Kidney Shot, Smoke Bomb if healer is CCed or far away or LoSed and Shadow dance, bursting the person down. when the healer runs into the Smoke Bomb to heal, focus kick focus gouge or focus blind.

    Shiv Unholy Frenzy off of DKs before Blinding them

    Dismantle shuts warriors and hunters down almost entirely

    Cheap Shot and Shiv no longer pierce Detterrence

    Wound mainhand Crippling offhand Mind Numbing thrown, maybe have another thrown to swap to with Crippling on it

    Woo, unorganized babble.

    Unfortunatly I don't know of an actual guide to playing Sub. Just figure things out, learn how the spell classes can kite you, and use sprint as often as you can while focus-sapping out of CC chains.

  4. #4
    4. Wound/Crip/Crip
    or
    Mindnumb/Crip/Crip
    Are those 20% worth it with Waylay? I don't think so.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Ionite View Post
    Are those 20% worth it with Waylay? I don't think so.
    Yes. Yes they are. Absolutely. 20% is huge...
    Waylay does not replace crippling by any means. It is to shut down burst from melee and hunters; and to make sure you dont have to shadowstep when opening on a mounted target if crippling doesent stick without having to shiv it

  6. #6
    Immortal Evolixe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ionite View Post
    Are those 20% worth it with Waylay? I don't think so.
    Don't really have waylay for the -speed, more for the -attackspeed.

    Good post minky, im not that good at explaining stuff :/

  7. #7
    Yes. Yes they are. Absolutely. 20% is huge...
    Waylay does not replace crippling by any means. It is to shut down burst from melee and hunters; and to make sure you dont have to shadowstep when opening on a mounted target if crippling doesent stick without having to shiv it
    You see, the rogue is able to keep in melee range with a running enemy even with a 50% slowed enemy easily. If the enemy has means to escape it(or stop you), like Blink, the 70% from Crippling won't help you in any way. That's what I learned from practice.
    Last edited by Ionite; 2011-03-10 at 08:01 AM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Ionite View Post
    You see, the rogue is able to keep in melee range with a running enemy even with a 50% slowed enemy easily. If the enemy has means to escape it, like Blink, the 70% from Crippling won't help you in any way. That's what I learned from practice.
    Please don't spread fallacies.
    Getting backstabs off is another concern and 20% makes it that much easier; and sprinting after a frost mage who's 70% slowed is viable instead of sprinting with the 50% slow.

    Waylay is undispellable; crippling is dispellable. Waylay is not meant to replace Crippling; it's meant to add a buffer.
    Crippling also adds dispel protection against mind numbing and wounding; as the other two do for Crippling.

    The alternative is double wound, mind numbing wound, and double wound. Deadly Poison is crap for sub; as is instant.
    I have a 1.3 dagger to swap mind numbing offhand for shivs then back to crippling; and 2 throwns to swap for crippling and mind numbing laced throws.

    tl;dr:use Crippling Poison

    edit:Glyphs:

    Prime:glyph of hemo is great as it easily applies a bleed for 10% more damage to the target (Talent:Sanquinary vein; also makes your bleeds 100% chance not to break gouge), glyph of ShadowDance, and either Glyph of Backstab or Glyph of Eviscerate.

    Majors:Blind[must],
    Garrote, Preparation, Cloak of Shadows, Fan of Knives, and Sprint are all viable depending on comp and playstyle, but the most common three is Blind, Garrote, Prep.

    Minors:Glyph of Distract, Poisons, and Blurred Speed
    Not like any of them will change the outcome of anything besides perhaps Blurred Speed in RBGs =P
    If you're prone to popping stealth midflight like I do sometimes, may want to pop Glyph of Safe Fall in ... And perhaps install Wardrobe addon, which automatically gets your damageable equipment off of you if you're going to take a lethal fall.

    Organization: Minky fails
    Last edited by Minky; 2011-03-10 at 08:09 AM.

  9. #9
    Aha. That's a better explanation. Thank you.

    (guess I didn't run into many people who actually tried to dispel something. )

  10. #10
    Field Marshal
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    Check out the rogue pvp guide found on the rogue section at arenajunkies dot com. The guy who wrote it put a great effort into it, with some very good insights, tips and strategies as well as being very well written and informative High recommending it to any rogue in general

    Beaconz and Beacs - Dentarg horde

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Azerox's Avatar
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    Much thanks for the fast replys, loads of things that certainly will help me on my way

    I have everything keybind/macroéd on Assasin already, and notice this is big win in PvP.

    Any additional info is always welcome, not only for me, but more that want to go Sub

    Special thanks to Minky ofcourse
    Last edited by Azerox; 2011-03-10 at 11:05 AM.

  12. #12
    Healer killing tip: Don't neglect your garrote during shadowdance against casters for the silence. If you do kidney shot into shadow dance, and then end your shadow dance with a garrote, you can effectively shut a healer down from even getting an instant cast off for 11 secs. If you have some DPS support, you can drop a disc priest in this time, and even if your by yourself, you can be putting enough hurt on any healer that they will be blowing cooldowns and desperately trying to get hard casts off when they come out of the cc.

  13. #13
    Should I use Crippling Poison for 2v2 with a Frost Mage? Or we'll have enough slows from mage+Waylay, and it's better to use double Wound?
    Life is short Glory is eternal

  14. #14
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ionite View Post
    Are those 20% worth it with Waylay? I don't think so.
    1 point in waylay for the little edge and thats it.
    And crippling is 100% worth it..because waylay wont slow down a Blood DK or healer for long enough.

  15. #15
    Deleted
    Here is a very good thread for you over at Arena Junkies:

    http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/18...of-roguecraft/

    Good information there

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