1. #1

    Elemental AoE 4.1 (PTR)

    Ok so, with the new changes Ele AoE is looking pretty sexy, however I seem to be draining mana drastically.. What's the best "rotation" if you will for say, Heroic Maloriak or a fight with lots of adds? Currently I'm specc'd into Reverberation so I can spam FS on as many targets as possible.

    I start off with EQ > FS > FN > CL > FS > FN / EQ / CL (Depending on CD's of course).. the DPS is decent I guess but I end up going oom pretty quickly. The "rotation" itself seems pretty all over the place.. maybe it's just me?

    Is this normal? Should I leave CL out?

  2. #2
    1) Add T-storm in
    2) Go with FS -> FN before the first EQ so you can more or less guarantee that clearcasting is up for it.

    Chain Lightning isn't the problem. If you're hitting 5 targets with it you'll more often than not gain mana from casting it. It's Earthquake & the constant shocking that's the drain on your mana.
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  3. #3
    I am Murloc!
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    If you aren't already doing so, FS your primary target, then LvB to reduce the cost of your first EQ before you move on to the rest of your aoe rotation.

  4. #4
    Magma down>Fs>Fn>Eq>Thunderstorm>Yum
    Hi Sephurik

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayure View Post
    If you aren't already doing so, FS your primary target, then LvB to reduce the cost of your first EQ before you move on to the rest of your aoe rotation.
    from my very limited experience as ele, this is the truth... EQ is silly expensive without ele focus, and seeing that 4.1 not changes it's mana cost, this i am afraid will be true with tht still.

  6. #6
    i tried new aoe mechanics for ele on the ptr and can say that we'll be oom after 12 seconds aoe cause of Eartquake that is our most dmgable aoe ability before 3 or 4 Flame shocks on the targets

  7. #7
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Askold View Post
    i tried new aoe mechanics for ele on the ptr and can say that we'll be oom after 12 seconds aoe cause of Eartquake that is our most dmgable aoe ability before 3 or 4 Flame shocks on the targets
    I absolutely guarantee that if you're going OOM in 12 seconds then your gear is abysmal.

    Right now, Elemental mana is practically a non-factor. We have PLENTY of room for more mana use. Adding Fire Nova isn't going to spike our mana costs that high, especially since we'll be casting Earthquake 20% less.

    There is no practical way the new AoE paradigm is going to be a huge unmanagable mana sink. Fire Nova is only 22% of our mana, Earthquake lasts longer (and thus is cast less), and Chain Lightning is generally mana neutral, and you can glyph it for AoE (since you'll be using it AND EQ/FN, rather than instead, as we currently do) to make it a net mana gain.

    I'm not on the PTR, but I'm downloading it now (overdue for doing so), but given the info on mana costs on the PTR, there is no way you're running OOM in 12 seconds unless you have no idea what you're doing.

    I run as one of the big AoE providers for my raid group, taking the brunt on Cho'gall and Maloriak, and I can spam things to my heart's content on those fights and end with half mana or more, and I don't use Thunderstorm much, don't have it glyphed at all, and don't spec into Convection.


    Edit: And, after testing on the PTR, with the completely wrong glyphs and only the three target dummies (so CL wasn't as much mana regen as it should've been), I kept my AoE going for almost a full minute. There is absolutely nothing in the game that requires that much AoE. Our mana costs are fine.

    I think EQ costs too much for what it now does, but it doesn't now and will not in 4.1 cause us to go OOM.
    Last edited by Endus; 2011-03-12 at 07:23 PM.


  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Edit: And, after testing on the PTR, with the completely wrong glyphs and only the three target dummies (so CL wasn't as much mana regen as it should've been), I kept my AoE going for almost a full minute. There is absolutely nothing in the game that requires that much AoE. Our mana costs are fine.
    To be honest, I still don't see why they completely reworked our AoE rotation, while other classes got buffed their one-button wonders just so they don't need to include more spells in between their main AoEs

    Also, your test says nothing about the damage done, nor does it say how long can you keep up AoEing right now with EQ spam and given how you claim all the time how EQ is cheap, I would guess you can sustain it for way longer than minute.

    Not to mention the fact, that just because >right now< there is nothing that needs this much AoEing (I suppose you are atlest 11/13 with Sinestra down if you can claim this as a fact) doesn't mean there won't be in Firelands raids.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Edit: And, after testing on the PTR, with the completely wrong glyphs and only the three target dummies (so CL wasn't as much mana regen as it should've been), I kept my AoE going for almost a full minute. There is absolutely nothing in the game that requires that much AoE. Our mana costs are fine.

    I think EQ costs too much for what it now does, but it doesn't now and will not in 4.1 cause us to go OOM.
    Heroic Maloriak requires that much AoE, but using EQ during the black phase is iffy at best so I suppose that's a moot point >.>

    For the second part of what I quoted, I wouldn't be surprised if it was bumped down to be about equal with the cost of Flamestrike.
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  10. #10
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarevokcz
    To be honest, I still don't see why they completely reworked our AoE rotation, while other classes got buffed their one-button wonders just so they don't need to include more spells in between their main AoEs
    It's mostly because of Enhancement. Their AoE was terrible, this is meant to improve it. They had to adjust our EQ because they knew if they didn't, Elemental AoE would either be ridiculous or (more likely), we'd skip the talent point and make do with the new FN and CL.

    Also, your test says nothing about the damage done, nor does it say how long can you keep up AoEing right now with EQ spam and given how you claim all the time how EQ is cheap, I would guess you can sustain it for way longer than minute.
    I didn't get into damage done because it was just some dummy testing and, like I said, I wasn't glyphed right (at all, actually, I logged out in resto spec and forgot to switch after the PTR copy).

    And I've never said EQ was cheap, just that its cost was perfectly in line with other similar spells, and we have the mana tools to easily allow for its use pretty much as often as we need it. I could maybe sustain longer than a minute of nothing but EQ-spam, but that never happens, and likely would never happen; EQ is only really viable DPS-wise with 5 or more targets getting hit, and in boss fights, that bunch of adds is ALWAYS a quick burn. If it takes too long to burn them, then you can obviously heal the tank through having them on them, so you may as well just burn the boss instead (like the ghouls on the LK fight, though those also have the plague mechanic to whittle them down). If there's a big add or two, like a drake or two on Halfus, then you burn the add single-target and with cleaves.

    There is never a case, and likely will never be a case, where you've got a pack of 5+ adds that you AoE for long enough for us to go OOM. If we burn adds on Maloriak, Magmaw, and Cho'gall, currently, I never needed more than 2 earthquakes, and even then the 2nd one I'm tossing more for speed of killing than anything. That goes straight back to when we were all in blues attempting content for the first time.

    Maloriak Heroic is going to be the closest, but EQ isn't as good there, due to the constant moving due to dark sludge. And rolling multiple FSs and FNs will actually be amazingly good, plus a glyphed CL will make the mana for that phase relatively easy to handle, most likely, but I'll have to wait for live to test that, most likely.

    If I WERE having mana issues, I could always go back to glyphing Thunderstorm and using it (since I don't, really, any more, unless I'm moving and lack anything else worthwhile), or speccing into Convection. Those aren't needed even in the AoE fights we've currently got, so I don't see why the new system would make it that much worse.


    We're still really early in 4.1, too. There's likely more stuff coming. I wouldn't say the current PTR is how it'll go live.


  11. #11
    You probably should not be using EQ on the adds in heroic maloriak, even with the change in 4.1. How long are the adds sitting in the AoE? Probably not very long, it's most likely not worth the mana cost. Cast Flame Shock on CD on a new target and just fire nova and chain lightning.
    Last edited by Shockington; 2011-03-13 at 12:01 AM.

  12. #12
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    You can pull of an EQ on Maloriak HC at the start of black phase, then it's just weaving CL and ES on the adds using the glyph. Also you can use EQ for the adds on the green phase as they shouldn't be moved.
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  13. #13
    Am i missing something here why are you flame shocking multiple adds? Isn't it the shocked target dont get damage or did that change?

    I must agree with Endus i dont see mana becoming an issue but reducing the mana cost or having EQ being instant are both welcomed changes.

    Thank you guys for the PTR info and keep it coming

    A lil note though since they sort of tied aoeing with Flame Shock they must remove Fulominiation from Shock spells its already an issue atm that you'll reach 6-7 stacks by the time your shock is off CD if you add the need to shock before aoeing you will be KILLING us

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffspears View Post
    Am i missing something here why are you flame shocking multiple adds? Isn't it the shocked target dont get damage or did that change?
    For each target that has a FS on it, a FN will go off. With each FN that goes off, they'll hit every target except the one that the FN came from.

    You wouldn't ever do this but just as an example, if you have 2 targets flameshocked, and you fire nova, they'll each take fire nova damage from the other targets FN.

  15. #15
    So anyone did more testing on this?

  16. #16
    Bringing this thread back from the dead

    I don't mean to be a tard but I don't think elemental is getting any more fixes (Not that we have many in the PvE world), Though 4.1 has not finished but studying blizzard's actions, I'd say maybe something in 4.2 but definitely its the end of the road for 4.1.

  17. #17
    So from what you guys have seen on the ptr does it seem like the damage is going to be worth casting or will chaining spells with FN be a higher dps rotation without EQ?

  18. #18
    My question for someone who has been on the ptr is this. If you have 2 adds out of like a pack of say 5 mobs, does that mean that several of those mobs will be getting hit with 2 fire novas in one cast? I hope that's clear enough for someone to answer but I am curious about that.

  19. #19
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emmiting View Post
    My question for someone who has been on the ptr is this. If you have 2 adds out of like a pack of say 5 mobs, does that mean that several of those mobs will be getting hit with 2 fire novas in one cast? I hope that's clear enough for someone to answer but I am curious about that.
    Everything but the target of your Flame Shock gets hit by the nova out of that Flame Shock. If you've got 5 adds, 2 with Flame Shock, and you cast Fire Nova, the 3 un-FSed mobs get hit by two FNs, and each FSed mob gets hit by one. Of course, they're taking FS damage, so it tends to even out.


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