1. #1

    Sorrows Training Grounds New Battleground Ideas

    Hi. Some of you might remember me from other threads I’ve posted on MMO-Champion, each filled with a suggestion for an addition to World of Warcraft. Once again, this thread is no different. This thread contains, as many other of my threads, an idea for a new battleground.

    I’ve just visited this thread called ‘create your own battleground’, where someone suggested an Alterac Valley styled battleground without NPC’s. I’m not quite sure how he meant it, but my mind immediately switched to the Juggernaut game type that is featured in most online shooting games.

    I don’t think that the true type of Juggernaut would work in a World of Warcraft battleground – there’s no possibility for a team goal in Juggernaut. However, the main idea of Juggernaut is that one person is pumped up, a berserker buff if you will, and as such, is targeted by everyone hoping they’d get the Juggernaut status.

    Now, try to imagine it in the Warcraft universe. This is what I came up with:

    Sorrows Training Grounds. I know you like battlegrounds in a specific location in Azeroth, but where would that be? As the first part of the name implies, it’s located in the Swamp of Sorrows. Why the Swamp of Sorrows? Let me use the same piece of text that I used in my ‘Taurajo Fields’ thread:
    I […] needed a proper area where it could work. I did a little research, made a graph for myself (that I may or may not upload), and figured out how the current battlegrounds are spread throughout the world. Let me list my findings.

    Battlegrounds in Eastern Kingdoms: 4 or 5; Alterac Valley, Arathi Basin, Battle for Gilneas, Twin Peaks and Tol Barad.
    Battlegrounds in Kalimdor: 1; Warsong Gulch.
    Battlegrounds in Northrend: 2 or 3; Isle of Conquest, Strand of the Ancients and Wintergrasp.
    Battlegrounds in Outlands: 1; Eye of the Storm.

    Battlegrounds in Northern Azeroth: 7 or 9; all except Eye of the Storm, which is located Outlands, obviously.
    Battlegrounds in Southern Azeroth: none.

    In conclusion, we have a lack of battlegrounds in Southern Azeroth, and on Kalimdor.

    As I’ve posted two ideas already, both in Southern Kalimdor, I decided that I should try and focus on the Southern part of Eastern Kingdom. I looked for a zone that had both the lore to support a battleground, while also having a pretty unique tileset.

    Merely looking at the tileset, I decided I could cut out Elwynn Forest and Westfall.
    Looking at the lore, I could also scrap out Duskwood and perhaps Redridge Mountains – it would take a bit of retconning to make that zone work.

    The current quests and general feel of the Swamp of Sorrows are based on the war between the Alliance and the Horde. The quests reflect the first two wars. On top of that, the Swamp of Sorrows is, if my memory serves me right, the place where the first war was duked out.
    In World of Warcraft, the questlines revolve around the two factions being at war. Bad thing about a war though – people die. Both the Horde and the Alliance would lose soldiers on the field of battle, and, in order not to lose, would need soldiers and officers.

    And that is where the objective comes in.
    As it’s an idea for a battleground, we need the obvious PvP. In this battleground, which would be 20 vs. 20 or a 15 vs. 15, the objective is to kill the opposing General.

    What, that’s not new, is it?
    It’s not. We had to kill Generals in Alterac Valley and Isle of Conquest already. The difference between those two and this one? The existing battlegrounds use a NPC as the General. Sorrows Training Grounds, on the other hand, would use a player General.

    But how would that work?
    At the start of every game, during the preparation phase, each side gets to choose a General. This General would receive a buff, that would increase his health by X%, damage output by Y%, but decrease the amount of healing taken by Z%. He’d carry a flag around, much like a player appears in Warsong Gulch, but with a permanent flag over his head. The General cannot stealth. Once a General is killed, the game finishes.

    How would the battleground look?

    Much like the map of Warsong Gulch or Twin Peaks. At two sides there’s a base, one for the Horde, one for the Alliance. These bases have two entrances, one at the side leading to a balcony in the main hall. This balcony is connected to the floor level with a stair. No one can stand below the balcony, it’s solid. As such, the General is always vulnerable to ranged attacks, and needs to keep on moving. No turtles in my battleground!
    As Blizzard decided to move graveyards up a level to prevent graveyard camping, I decided to follow their lead and do so as well. The graveyard is placed on an elevation directly touching the base, but you need to jump down to take either entrance in.
    The centre area is mainly plain, so battles could be duked out there. In two corners a buff could be found in a themed house. The General is unable to get the buff, and would just ‘eat’ it rather than use it.

    Quick mock-up of the map.

    Q & A (or statements and replies, for that matter):

    Q. This idea sucks.
    A. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but please, elaborate why you think it’s a bad idea.

    Q. You suck.
    A. Thank you.

    Q. Are you saying we’re like a raid boss?
    A. Yes.

    Q. What would happen if no General is assigned?
    A. At first, the General state is handed out to the raid leader. During the preparation phase, it is free to pass along to other raid members.

    Q. A raid leader in a PUG is assigned to the first person who enters the battleground. Don’t you think that person would take advantage of it, and not assign the General status to the best choice?
    A. Yes, I do believe that there’s enough people who’d do so. That’s why I’m toying with the idea to make it a rated battleground only.

    Q. What would happen if both teams don’t manage to kill the opposing General?
    A. After a set time, the battleground would end, much like Warsong Gulch. I’m not sure yet whether to let the team win who’s General’s health is higher, or call it a true tie.

    Q. What factions will winning give reputation to?
    A. I’m not quite sure if the Swamp of Sorrows gives enough room to put in factions. I would enjoy having them, though.

    Q. This looks too much like …
    A. If you mean that this idea is too close to other people’s ideas, let me tell you that most of the ideas in this thread come from my personal head. Also, to quote Gsusnme in the Warden thread:
    I have nothing to GAIN from "stealing" an idea, as I am not getting paid for this, it's simply for fun and the whole "What-If" factor.
    New Class: Runemaster
    New Alliance Race: Furbolg
    New Horde Race: None yet.
    New Zones: None yet.
    New Battleground: Ruins of Eldre'Thalas, Silithus Quarry, Taurajo Fields, Sorrows Training Grounds
    New Dungeon: None yet.

  2. #2
    Seems pretty cool to me
    Quote Originally Posted by nightcinder
    well wait. he might have a point.
    garrosh is an orc. "orc" has 3 letters in it. so does the word "win".
    malfurion is a night elf. "night elf" has eight letters. so does "will lose".

    you can add this to the first post, if you'd like. makes more sense than most of your points.

  3. #3
    High Overlord Astrobandaid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Calgary, AB
    wouldnt it just be a game of everyone rolling dps then nuking the general?

    Playing since '04

  4. #4
    Hmm.. when i readed the part about the player being the boss, i laughed so hard cause the whole ide is grate. but it would feel like both teams would just run right into the middle and try to zerg down the other teams boss, whitch would just seem like a huge Arena match. For exaple look at AV and IoC, you cant just run up to he boss and kill it (exept for AV where you can use a really good tank + pair of healers). in IoC, you have to bust down the gate, whitch you can do in a numbers of ways. and in Av, it is critical to get down the bunkers/towers, (maybe not all of them, but it is still important enough to do so.). So, you cant just place a boss and say: kill him, you need to have other objectives, stuff that requiers your group for split up into diferent taskes like: Cap/fight for contoll or somthing to make the enemy boss posible to kill, at least so you could not just run in and have a huge dam arena fight in middle, you need things to prevent that from happening dude, other wise, i love the ide

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Gagginz View Post
    but it would feel like both teams would just run right into the middle and try to zerg down the other teams boss
    you need to have other objectives, stuff that requiers your group for split up into diferent taskes
    You might be right, but having other objectives might be very boring for the General. It's something I wanted to avoid, because no one would want to be the General if all they had to do is sit on their bottoms for a long time.

    Any ideas for other objectives would be kind of neat. All I currently have is this idea for multiple control points, which are used to power down the other General, but it would be a bit like IoC when done like that. I kinda like the basic idea, so any ideas would be appreciated very much - I want to build on this idea
    New Class: Runemaster
    New Alliance Race: Furbolg
    New Horde Race: None yet.
    New Zones: None yet.
    New Battleground: Ruins of Eldre'Thalas, Silithus Quarry, Taurajo Fields, Sorrows Training Grounds
    New Dungeon: None yet.

  6. #6
    I approve of this. I mean they should add more stuff to the battlegrounds to keep them interesting. Right now its just CTF and Territories.

  7. #7
    Elemental Lord Golden Yak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    The Sunny Beaches of Canada
    A Horde camp in the north and an Alliance camp in the south?


  8. #8
    Pandaren Monk Deleo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    In the dark. Watching. Waiting
    I like the pure PvP fight we will be seeing.
    I've walked the realms of the dead. I have seen the infinite dark. Nothing you say. Or do. Could possibly frighten me.
    We are not monsters! We are not the mindless wretches of a ghoul army! NO! We are a force even more terrifying! We are the chill in a coward's spine! We are the instruments of an unyielding ire! WE ARE THE FORSAKEN!
    Those who do not stand with the Forsaken stand against them. And those who stand against the Forsaken will not stand long.

  9. #9
    maybe... it could be done with 3 (or 5 for more fine tuning) control points which control the damage output, damage taken and healing debuff of the general.
    i mean when, for example, horde controls 2/3 points and the alliance 1/3, the horde general would do +250% dmg and receive -75% healing, therefore wouldnt need so much defensive players to guard him because he kills attacking players faster. the alliance general would only do +100% dmg, but could be healed much better with only a -25% healing debuff, needing more guards to keep him alive, but would still be doable.

    oh and dont allow the general to run near the other faction's general, maybe cut it somewhere in the open field with about 80m between them.

    whatever, i hope you got the point of my idea, to create the need of capturing control points to make it easier for the own faction to guard the general. maybe someone can work with that idea to create a better way of implementing control points
    otherwise the bg would be over in a few minutes and not 10-15.

  10. #10
    Dreadlord Black Kyurem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Belfast, Ireland
    To get the Jugger moving, why not have points where the faction must bring their General to buff him up.
    I don't think the General should be able to be healed, rather, he must get to a certain point to regain a little bit if health. The health of the faction's general and the opposing general should be visible to everyone at all times.

  11. #11
    Stood in the Fire Doomsoul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    Great idea. What came to my mind first is the generals HP and overall healing capabilities. As you said - the general will have Z% reduced healing taken, but that doesn't mean he can't be healed to full once an attack has been defended. Imagine this. Both teams engage, general either hides or moves around to avoid enemies. One team wins the engagement and moves towards the general. They inflict some damage, but are unable to kill him, because the other team respawned. They manage to push back the remaining attackers and heal the general to full in comfortable safety. And this goes on for a very very long time. Unless one team is so much more powerful than the other that they cut through their defences like butter and compeltely own the general in 1 attack. Unless the general reduced healing is like 95% or s.th.

    I was thinking perhaps - the general has a set amount of HP (raid boss HP pool) - and he cannot be healed. I think this will allow for some difference in tactics. The general will again retain the ability/choice to either hide somewhere or follow a pattern of movement avoiding enemies. Some might argue that this will look like AV, where both teams just rush in and try to kill the opposing general first, but you see - that is where your awesome idea for a battleground can shine. The general is not motionless, he does'nt have a predetermined spot - he can move, avoid, hide, use his class abilities.

    To further avoid a "general rush" the map can be somewhat imbued with extra obstacles, more labirinty*, if there is such a word. The map itself won't be the normal flat surface with one, two elevated areas - some clever design can make it pretty awesome. Random or predefined buffs on the battlefield that can empower/heal your general are also a good addition I think. If your general is low on health, your team might consider moving him from his new hiding place in one last desperate attemp to have him healed for some percentage. This may result in a fail, or a victory, depending on the route the team takes or their ability to slow down the enemy.

    Great idea you have there, Count.

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