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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by mugiwara1984 View Post
    you lose much too much rage with stancedancing. the only reason to change stances is if you want to use this fury cooldown.

    but what im interested in is more, if mastery gets over crit now that it got buffed.
    no, with patch 4.1 you WANT to stancedance, it's a clear DPS gain.
    for the rage issue, get Tactical Mastery instead of Drums of war, problem fixed.

  2. #22
    @Bysu
    I apoligize for the late response...has been a hectic week.

    Currently yes, it is a noticable Dps increase to stance dance; A minor Dps increase, but noticable none the less. The value of the Dps increase is of course subjective to your quality of gear. Once you have to gear to stance dance (see next statement below), you at the very least will see (at first) roughly a ~1k increase in overall Dps that will increase further as you smooth out your rotation (see guides macro section/keybindings) and of course increase in gear quality.

    To your second question, you are right to assume the value of expertise is affected while stance dancing. The stat priority list remains the same as if it was 4.0.6, where 8%Hit>Crit>Mastery=26Expertise>Haste. However, I would not recommend stance dancing until you reach that 26 expertise mark, as a missed ability would result in a larger net loss of Dps than if you would have remained in just Battle Stance.

    Also, Gatsu is correct in stating that Tactical Mastery should be capped out once you have the gear to stance dance.

    This also does not mean you should reforge everything to expertise just to hit the 26 mark; allow your mastery/expertise ratings to increase at a similar rate while still following the stat priority list, with raid quality gear you will hit the expertise cap very easily with little reforging necessary (typically). I would like to refer you to the elitistjerks Arms warrior thread where there is currently an on-going discussion about stance dancing (see pg 13/14).

    I hope that I was of assistance.

  3. #23
    Deleted
    Can you make some examples of a proper stance dance dpssing as arms?

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Sindako View Post
    Can you make some examples of a proper stance dance dpssing as arms?
    Using zerk stance gives you a 5% damage buff. The only abilities you need to be in battle stance for from your rotation are rend and overpower. Overpower has a mechanic that allows you to preload a charge so that if you wait 5 seconds after the initial proc, you can use it back to back. Mortal strike now refreshes rend so as long as you use it before rend drops off, overpower is the only ability you need to be in battle stance for. The idea is to apply rend, switch to zerk stance until your OP is doubled, switch back to battle stance to use both OP back to back, then go back to zerk stance until your double OP is ready again.

    In simpler terms:

    Start in battle stance > rend > zerk stance > CS > MS > Slam > battle stance > OP x 2 > zerk stance

    The rotation isn't really a rotation and won't always look like this. I'm still working on the gear before I start stance dancing myself, but the basic idea is there.

  5. #25
    As I said in another thread, double Overpower is not always the best solution.
    There is really no downside in switching 2 times instead that 1, keep watching your cooldowns and TfB procs.

  6. #26
    Well I've been trying to practice the stance dancing and I can admit it takes some practice to get used to it. Even practicing on the dummy I can see results fluctuate depending on small personal mistakes that cumulate through time, while avoiding stance dancing usually nets a more "stable" set of results.

    So far I've opted for stance dancing only on single target fights where the possibilities for errors are as slim as possible (yet making mistakes still implies a significant dps loss).

    Right now I would like to know if there is some addon or interface configuration that could help with the delay added by the "action bar swapping" every time you take into a new stance, because so far the only way I've found to minimize the impact of this is by "pre changing" stances, i.e. hitting the next macroed ability so the stance change occurs during the gcd of the previous ability.

    Additionally, I've found that chaining overpowers can become problematic, since you are exposed to going over the 75 rage cap by using only 10 rage within 2 seconds (3 seconds when next patch hits live according to current notes), hence having to dump a Heroic Strike before going back to Berserker stance. This effect may not have important consequences in a rage controlled environment, but is very vulnerable to rage spikes and such.

    Finally, my last question and this is regarding a different topic (non stance dance related), I was wondering where in the priority list does Heroic Strike fits when you have procced Incite. This doesn't seem to be covered in the common guides, but would it make Heroic Strike momentarily raise above Slam in the priority system?.

  7. #27
    Bloodsail Admiral Nume's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bysu View Post
    Right now I would like to know if there is some addon or interface configuration that could help with the delay added by the "action bar swapping" every time you take into a new stance, because so far the only way I've found to minimize the impact of this is by "pre changing" stances, i.e. hitting the next macroed ability so the stance change occurs during the gcd of the previous ability.
    I personally use Dominos action bar mod, and I'm sure most bar mods have that feature. In Dominos, you can choose if you want a bar to switch for stances or not. I prefer having all my bars stay set, and just use macros for any that I want to have different effects in diff stances (don't really have many of those anymore though) so I don't have my bars change at all, which removes that issue.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Nume View Post
    I personally use Dominos action bar mod, and I'm sure most bar mods have that feature. In Dominos, you can choose if you want a bar to switch for stances or not. I prefer having all my bars stay set, and just use macros for any that I want to have different effects in diff stances (don't really have many of those anymore though) so I don't have my bars change at all, which removes that issue.
    Thanks a lot, I'm gonna try and see if I find something that suits me, mostly to eliminate the gaps when the interface becomes unresponsive, it becomes a little bit annoying and stresses the button smashing to it's limits.

  9. #29
    Stance dancing is also reliant on your ping. Most warriors playing above 200ms find it hard to keep up stance dancing without missing procs etc.
    It's like wrath's fury ARP + battle stance thing.

  10. #30
    Keyboard Turner Intrepid's Avatar
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    Good stuff in here. I just went arms and i'm trying to get it all figured out. Awesome info thanks guys.

  11. #31
    I have question how does your single rotation looks. I am not sure if I should do:

    Rend > CS > MS > Over power > 2x Slam

    or

    Rend > CS > MS > Over power > 1x Slam


    Basicly if I use 2x Slam I have my MS like 0.5 sec later but I Slam two times. So I don't know if delaying MS for 0.5 sec is better just to use 2x slam?

  12. #32
    Bloodsail Admiral Nume's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose19 View Post
    I have question how does your single rotation looks. I am not sure if I should do:

    Rend > CS > MS > Over power > 2x Slam

    or

    Rend > CS > MS > Over power > 1x Slam


    Basicly if I use 2x Slam I have my MS like 0.5 sec later but I Slam two times. So I don't know if delaying MS for 0.5 sec is better just to use 2x slam?
    There is a lot of debate/argument about this. Long story short, either will work pretty well. It just kind of depends what you are more comfortable with.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Thenight View Post
    Great guide..

    But Cata really lack Arms - PVe gear.. Almost every single piece of epic has got haste, and blizz want's arms to be a Pve spec as well.
    The stat priority for Arms is essentially identical to Fury, I'm in full 359 epics and through reforging, I only have 5% (and some change) haste. Also, I corrected your spelling and grammar. I guess it's true that most warriors don't have much Int.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Becvar View Post
    The stat priority for Arms is essentially identical to Fury......
    this is incorrect

    as fury you use aroun11%-14% hit for rage generation
    as Arms you only need to attain 8% hit

  15. #35
    I'm just trying to get back into WoW after being away for years and this thread is proving absolutely invaluable for me, thank you.

    Your keybinds use "E" for Move Forward and also for Execute. Somehow I don't think that's right... Also, what does "Auto-Place 'Stance'" mean? Use a macro to auto switch to that stance before doing it?

    Again, thanks.

  16. #36
    @Rhothran

    I am always glad to hear the guide is assisting people in learning this specialization.

    I have updated the keybindings that I currently use and fixed that error. Also, "Auto-Place 'Stance'" is in reference to just as you said: it implies I use a macro to automatically change stances and use said ability. In the macro sub-section, I have listed a couple examples of the same macros I am referencing. If you have any other questions, feel free to send me a PM or post to this thread and I will reply promptly.

  17. #37
    Oh cool, that makes more sense. Thanks!

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Litavis View Post
    this is incorrect

    as fury you use aroun11%-14% hit for rage generation
    as Arms you only need to attain 8% hit
    3% hit from being fury + 8% = 11%...
    you probably want closer to 14% if you're TG, double misses as TG result in rage generation at the user end rather than for your toon lol

  19. #39
    I know I'm not getting something here - why is Bladestorm a single target DPS loss? It seems (to me) like 150% weapon damage every second + auto attacks seems better than normal rotation damage?

    What am I missing?

  20. #40
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by 3clipse View Post
    I know I'm not getting something here - why is Bladestorm a single target DPS loss? It seems (to me) like 150% weapon damage every second + auto attacks seems better than normal rotation damage?

    What am I missing?
    Late answer, I'm afraid, but in case you're still wondering:

    Bladestorm is 150% weapon damage every second for 6 seconds. No more, no less. It's not bad, but there are no modifiers to it.


    • Mortal Strike is also 150% weapon damage, +10% damage from the glyph, +20% crit damage from Impale, critical MS proc Wrecking Crew, +15% damage from War Academy, procs Battle Trance, +10% damage from Lambs to the Slaughter.

    • Slam is 145% weapon damage, +5% crit from the glyph, +20% crit damage from Impale, +20% damage from Improved Slam, +10% damage from Lambs to the Slaughter.

    • Overpower is 125% weapon damage, +60% crit chance from Taste for Blood, +20% crit damage from Impale, +10% damage from the glyph, +10% damage from Lambs to the Slaughter.

    Basically, sure, 150% damage every second is neat, but you're losing out on these procs and modifiers. It's extremely rage-efficient damage, so perhaps it's worthwhile if you just used OP > MS with and find yourself at low rage.

    It did make me curious, however. What if one Bladestorms instead of double Slams and then cancel it? That's 3 (4? I'm not Arms so I'm not sure) BS strikes rather than 2 Slams.

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