Need Help with my Prot Warrior

[widów]

Hi, im pretty mouch an noob in Tanking Raids.. Im doing fine in 5 Mans but in Raids ( did PSA 2 Days ago ) im loosing aggro pretty quick when pulling a Boss.
Can someone give me a advice what to change on my gear to prevent stuff like this? Maybe by Reforging? What about Hit and Expertise? Ive read in a Protection Guide that Expertise is more Important than hit?
And yes, i know my shoulders suck, i did Zul Aman about 14 Times and those damn things never drop

This is My Armory

eu.battle.net/wow/de/character/mugthol/Purehatelol/simple

Thanks for your Help and sorry for my Bad English

[shadowkras]

I dont think i can believe you are losing aggro on 5mans. Look at this screenshot, was taken yesterday on a random ZA:

A cookie if you identify my weapon without checking my armory. That crit is a heroic strike.

Take a look at the sticked FAQ. Your spec is fine, there is nothing wrong with it. Hit and Expertise arent that important on 5mans, just remember that shockwave never misses.

[Scummer]

I dont think i can believe you are losing aggro on 5mans. Look at this screenshot, was taken yesterday on a random ZA:
A cookie if you identify my weapon without checking my armory. That crit is a heroic strike.

Take a look at the sticked FAQ. Your spec is fine, there is nothing wrong with it. Hit and Expertise arent that important on 5mans, just remember that shockwave never misses.

He said he had trouble in Raids.

Anyway your gear looks fine , and anyway gear for tanks typically is itemized towards mitigation and not threat increase as we get that naturally through higher threat moves and tanking stances/presence. Don't worry about the shoulder one of my guild OT still uses his and recently got the t12 ones. He's done fine with them.

I would advise you reforge your dodge into parry though. The two should be mostly equal to split the diminishing returns. However you should have slightly more parry due to Hold The Line.

If you are pulling a boss make sure you open with heroic throw , then charge and shield slam. If you shout and BR (if glyphed) you can pop shield block while charging to buff the threat of your shield slam and allow for an early revenge proc. That should get you aggro very quickly. Follow up with a few devastate and always use your heroic.

I'm not sure how much else i can advise. Holding aggro has always been the easy thing. If you still have problems then wait until 4.3 as threat is effectively being taken out of the equation.

[Deleted]

Shadow, he's spec might be fine, he's gemming/reforging, not so much
Surprised you didnt notice it / mention it..

Gems:
Get eternal shadowspirit diamond for meta.
Get parry cogwheel
Dont use stamina/dodge hybrid gems, only use:
Red: fine ember topaz
yellow fractured amberjewel
blue: pussiant dream emerald.
All prismatic/bs sockets: 40 mastery.

Enchants: enchant hands.
Upgrade enchants on:
chest
feet
get dodge on wrist.

And most importantly...
Stop reforging TO expertise or hit..
Your missing ~700 mastery from reforges/gems alone, which is HUGE...

To much reforge changes to list them all but if you wanna learn something about prot.. check out: what shadow mentioned. if you wanna be lazy, go to mrrobot or similar

For threat help:
Keybind and macro skull and cross mark, always mark atleast one mob you want dps to focus on.
For packs of mobs i generally:
Heroic throw it while charging at the same time.
I then open with rend->tclap-Shockwave-Cleave-buffs->normal rotation.
(You can optionally shockwave and stun in place before you apply rend->tclap)

For bosses
HT+charge->Shield slam->devastate til SS proc->SS->rev if procced->conc blow->rend/tclap/demo
(Optionally you can pop SB before the first SS for a bit more damage)
Another option is to pop a rage potion (gives 70 rage) and you can spam abilities a bit more freely.

[tennesseej]

Unfortunately I don't speak German, but from what I can deduce from your Armory, and what it looks like you are attempting raid wise (Tier 11) I would say your gear shouldn't be a huge issue. I would remove your +60 Stamina gems and either replace them with +40 Mastery, or +20 Mastery and +30 Stam gems.

As far as Warrior threat goes, I always open with:

Battle Shout -> Heroic Throw -> Charge -> Shield Block while charging -> Shield Slam

Then I go into my "Build Threat" mode, where I follow this priority system:

Shield Slam > Revenge >= Shockwave > Heroic Strike (with Inner Rage) > Devastate

Once I have sufficient threat that the DPS won't catch me for a while, I go into my normal tanking priority system:

Shield Slam > Revenge > Shockwave > Devastate > Heroic Strike (save Inner Rage if you need to switch targets soon)

Your biggest key to gaining initial threat is using Shield Slam as much as possible while Shield Block is up during those first few seconds. If you nail that, use Shockwave and Heroic Strike, you are gonna be fine.

[Deleted]

Just replace 'DE' to 'EN' in the url and you get an english armory tenne ;p

[shadowkras]

He said he had trouble in Raids.

Blame my eyes, it was 6:09.

Surprised you didnt notice it / mention it..

I didnt check it. Gear matters little on when we deal +3x% threat (my screenshot proves it). And chances were he had more hit/expertise than we would advise him to.
Anyway, check the faq, many answers there to the few of your questions. Anything we say here will be 90% copy+paste from there (in the sense of it).

On an insight, my whole gear needs updating.

[tennesseej]

Just replace 'DE' to 'EN' in the url and you get an english armory tenne ;p

Awesome! I didn't know you could do that. You can get really nit picky with gear, but it sounds like that isn't your problem. Try out some of the rotation suggestions that myself and others have mentioned and if you are still having problems you can come back and get more answers!

Thanks for the armory tip

[Deleted]

You really need to reforge all your dodge to mastery. first mastery than parry and dodge, so change all dodge gems to mastery and reforge all dodge to mastery and you will be safe with taking less damage

[Deleted]

I agree shadow, to some degree, his post was about threat specifically, but proper gearing would not only result in less damage taken, but more blocks = more rage = more threat ;P

[shadowkras]

Well, to be more precise, are you losing threat to a DPS? Or to another tank? What class was this dps if thats the case and how much dps he was doing?
What boss was it? Did he pull aggro once or all the time?

Pardon the ignorance, but what the fuck is PSA? Iv been asking myself since my first reply?
Blackwing Descent?

[Deleted]

I dont think i can believe you are losing aggro on 5mans. Look at this screenshot, was taken yesterday on a random ZA:

A cookie if you identify my weapon without checking my armory. That crit is a heroic strike.

Take a look at the sticked FAQ. Your spec is fine, there is nothing wrong with it. Hit and Expertise arent that important on 5mans, just remember that shockwave never misses.

Big whoop you are holding aggro with a 500% threat increase?

Anyway he said his raiding he struggles with.

I'd personally pot for strength if you are struggling for aggro maybe go as far to use a strength flask?

Make sure you shoot (optional) Heroic strike, charge or leap in, Shield block then a shield slam then move onto devastate spam and use a Heroic strike if you are rage capped.

[silentkillin]

Generally try to heroic strike when you are over 75 rage. Also don't forget to use Vig on the other tank. That will help you build threat faster because you get more attack power faster. Something I like to do is pop recklessness and shield block at the same time and then shield slam. The Shield Block negates the damage taken from Recklessness and allows you to pump out more damage and thus more threat.

If another tank or dps is pulling threat off of you intervene them and taunt. It reduces their threat and throws you up over them rather high. I have issues sometimes on Rag with the other tank sometimes pulling off before I have 4 stacks. the intervene trick works wonders.

[shadowkras]

Big whoop you are holding aggro with a 500% threat increase?

Anyway he said his raiding he struggles with.

I'd personally pot for strength if you are struggling for aggro maybe go as far to use a strength flask?

Make sure you shoot (optional) Heroic strike, charge or leap in, Shield block then a shield slam then move onto devastate spam and use a Heroic strike if you are rage capped.

1) Its a lv60 weapon. Tanked the entire dungeon with it, multiple times.
2) The entire point was to show that threat is kinda pointless with the changes last patch.
3) Its 300%, 500% will be on 4.3.
4) Its heroic throw.
5) You just repeated what was said a couple of times in the thread already.

If another tank or dps is pulling threat off of you intervene them and taunt.

Taunt then intervene, so they sit at 90% and you sit at 100%, you will have over 10% of lead over them.

[Agallochh]

Inner Rage + Berserker Rage + Heroic Strike spam with Devastates and Shield Slam spams. No more threat problems. Enjoy.

---------- Post added 2011-11-16 at 11:17 PM ----------

Inner Rage + Berserker Rage + Heroic Strike spam with Devastates and Shield Slam spams. No more threat problems. Enjoy.

And obviously by Shield Slam spam I mean keeping it on C/d and using it everytime you get S&B procs.

[xebtria]

it's still 300%? I highly doubt that. there were even blue posts who explained why they have buffed it to 500% in a hot fix during firelands.

then again, you could, theoretically, tank with a lvl 1 weapon (as long as it is no dagger), because everything a Prot warrior uses except devastate (and rend, which is crap anyways on single target) is 100% AP based, not weapon damage based. and rend is even 50:50 ap/weapon damage. so congratz for thunderfury anyways...

*sneaks out of the thread again*

[Deleted]

It's 500% since a Firelands hotfix.

[widów]

Allright, thanks a lot for all the support.
So what i understood this far is:

Change my Meta Gem to Eternal shadowspirit Diamond
Use Parry Cogwheel instead of Dodge
No more Stamina Hybrid Gems
Enchant Hands? They are enchanted, or is there a better enchant?
Upgrade enchant on Chest
Upgrade Enchant on Feet, but which one is the best?
Enchant Dodge on Wrist

And i was told to stop reforging to Expertise or Hit? I thaught my Threat problem was because my Attacks Missed or get Dodged?

Shadowkras PSA Is Blackwing Descent

And jeah what a lot of you said was to use Heroic Throw before the charge and ive never done that :>

[Twigless]

Pardon the ignorance, but what the fuck is PSA? Iv been asking myself since my first reply?
Blackwing Descent?

PSA is Blackwing Descent, yeah. Pechschwingenabstieg, in German.

[Ssateneth]

3) Its 300%, 500% will be on 4.3.

Wrong. It's been 500% for many months now since a hotfix deployed early in 4.2. Proof is open up your omen and use something as simple as 1 autoattack vs a mob that wont die in 1 shot, and compare the threat you have to the damage you did. The threat should be 5x (or roughly, depending on buffs/debuffs activated with the attack) of the damage you done. Also, Omen does not calculate any threat values anymore (hasnt since wotlk been out), they are pulled directly from whatever the server tells us the threat is.