[TV] Game of Thrones [No Spoilers]

[Disenchanted]

Can't believe I'm the first to comment after this episode. That said, if you haven't seen it yet, stop reading NOW.




Why are you still here? You're going to watch it tomorrow. Stop reading until you do.





Are they gone? Ok. First the GOOD:

King's Landing riot and aftermath: As good as we could hope for given budgetary reasons.

The Muthafukkin Hound!!! It's well past time we got to see his badassness. Tense scene with Sansa even though I knew the Hound would appear.

Joffrey getting shit thrown in his face, and slapped by Tyrion (again). Yes, nothing surprising if you read the book, but so much fun anyway. Eat shit, Joffrey. Eat it.

Theon taking Winterfell. Everything about it. From Bran's initial response, "Why?" (lol) to the gut wrenching Rodrik Cassel execution scene. Perfect. Yes, I know poor Cassel didn't die this way (or this soon) in the book. But this is a change I can live with (as opposed to some changes I'll rant about later). Gruesome way to go. Taking a man's head off isn't easy. And Theon bungled it big time. Hard to watch, but nice detail.

Osha! No, not the nude scene (but she was quite lovely under those rags). Osha in the series is much better than Osha in the books. And I liked Osha in the books.

For the first time... ever, I didn't hate Shae on the show. Just saying.

Ygritte. Ygritte. Ygritte. I love the casting. Ok, she's a touch prettier than described in the books. But I always imagined her prettier than average anyway. Jon Snow's initial thoughts on her - I wagered - were based on her being unkempt, and his prejudice towards "high born" girls. But so far, she also has Ygritte's spirit captured perfectly. Almost makes up for the huge miss they made on Asha/Yara. But more on this later...

I enjoyed the Harrenhal scenes greatly. Yeah, yeah, Amory Lorch is yet another name that book Arya never gave. But I can forgive that. Anyone else think Littlefinger recognized her? I wonder where they'll go with that.

Ramsey was namedropped! Huzzah! I mean.... er, nevermind.

Now the BAD:

Every single second spent in Qarth. It was almost painfully boring, trite, and eye rolling nonsense. Hey, I like Dany. But if I hear her say "I will take what is mine with fire and blood," one more time, I may have to throttle whoever writes her lines. They're turning her into a spoiled, whiney, presumptive bitch. A man does not approve. Ok, you want to spice up the Qarth storyline as it is a tad on the dull side in the books. I'm ok with that. But you failed. So far, you could have left it as it was and we'd be more entertained. But more on this later as well...

Robb, and "Talisa." Ok, we get it. They're both attractive. They're making googly eyes at each other. Get on with it.

And now for the UGLY:

Hey, look. I'm ok with changes being made to condense time, or to consolidate story lines. I'm ok with characters being rolled into a more established character. I actually like "deleted scenes" (scenes we see on the show that never happened in the book, but easily could have if a POV character had been there). But they're straying further and further from the source material. Some of those strays are going to have a bad effect on future storylines.

But more unforgivable are changes that are COMPLETELY unnecessary.

Jon Snow couldn't kill Ygritte. So he let her go and rejoined Qhorin Halfhand. That's all you need to know at this point. WTF was that other nonsense all about?!?!?! I swear to the Seven, the Old Gods, Red Rh'llor, and the Faceless God that if they alter Jon's storyline with the Halfhand and it's conclusion in any way whatsoever, I'm going to go postal. If they cut out Jon's... connection with Ghost, Qhorin's way of knowing about it, and what Jon sees, I'll be fit to be tied.

Catelyn arrives so early? But still no Riverrun, Edmure or Blackfish? ok... You're making things more complicated for next year than they need be, but ok.

I know they need some tension and conflict in Qarth. But really? Stealing the dragons? And killing Irri? REALLY? Why? So Dany will have a reason to go to THotU? She'd want to go ANYWAY. Whoever has written the storylines for Dany this season needs to find more suitable work... like maybe cleaning toilets. It's so pointless, unnecessary, and too diverging from the real story.

Do NOT turn this into another "True Blood." That show can get away with it. This story is too intricate to stray very far and still be able to call itself "GoT."

[Badpaladin]

This Arya-Tywin relationship is really developing into one of my favorites. Charles Dance is so perfect it's unreal and they're handling it exceptionally well with very slight advances in complexity each episode. I sort of felt a bit of disconnect in the books (at this point in the story) with Tywin because he was so highly revered, yet the details of how he handled situations was mostly in nebulous details. Really loving how this is panning out. Also, the bit of tension with Littlefinger in the room was incredibly well done, and I think they're going to focus more on him having significant leverage in the coming episodes, even if it's not related to this.

And I actually like this new Daenarys. I was never really "on her side" in the books, and making her seem spoiled and helpless is great for me. If they develop her into somebody who gets sufficiently humbled I'll be happy, but if they end up making her a pretty mediocre ruler-figure I'll be ecstatic.

I know this seems a bit wrong because of the hair color, but the actress who plays Ygritte would be incredible for Asha/Yara. Sharp face, sinister attitude and very pretty in a feisty kind of way. A man can dream.

Disliking the Robb/Talissa thing, but I don't think there's much they could do with it. Considering he just sort of fucking shows up with this chick in the books, and there's no details about how he wins all his battles, they're doing the best they can while still snagging in an audience.

I'm glad Osha is getting more screen time, because the actress who plays her is pulling this off in a grand way. Deceptively dangerous and borderline cruel to those who don't treat her well. Spot on.

And Theon's taking of Winterfall was, hands down, better than the novels.

Now if they can only find a way to make Asha/Yara-actress stop pretending she's being cast for a Romantic Comedy and have her murder somebody or something. Christ.

[Disenchanted]

I'm not necessarily on Team Dany in the books, but she's a "good" character to me. This Daenarys seems more like her brother and "Arstan Whitebeard" would never offer her his sword.

Oh well, they could get it back on track. I'm just not liking this version of Dany this season.

But then, they do that to a lot of characters. Catelyn, Cersei, Littlefinger, even Stannis have had tweeks to their character's core that seem off-putting. And don't get me started on Asha...

ETA:

Speaking of a man who wears nondescript robes, carries a staff and sports a white beard: Is it just me? Or did it seem like he might have been the one carrying the dragons? And if so, WTF? Could be epic (secreted them out before they could be taken?). Or could be a real facepalm move by D&D. All in all, it's probably most likely it's just one of the warlocks who took them.

[Flappy]

Take my hand, don't you dare close your eyes:

The Hound in the episode calls Sansa "pretty bird" or "caged bird", right? Now in Sylvester and Tweety (the cartoon) the bulldog is always protecting Tweety from Sylvester, anybody else seeing the connection I'm seeing or should I calm down on the shrooms? I mean come on, "The Hound" and "Pretty Bird"?

[Disenchanted]

Take my hand, don't you dare close your eyes:

The Hound in the episode calls Sansa "pretty bird" or "caged bird", right? Now in Sylvester and Tweety (the cartoon) the bulldog is always protecting Tweety from Sylvester, anybody else seeing the connection I'm seeing or should I calm down on the shrooms? I mean come on, "The Hound" and "Pretty Bird"?

It's "Little Bird."

They probably should explain why he calls her that. It's not exactly a term of endearment... or is it?

Just in case they do explain his nickname for her, I'll put it in spoilers. Not really a major revelation, but... He mocks her for not being honest about her true feelings about everyone around her and just tweeting platitudes. She's so polite, it's sickening. He knows the sight of his scars repulses her, but she'll even fake courtesy towards him. He knows she despises Joffrey and the entire court for that matter, but she'll sing the song about her love for him anyway and her loyalty. She's just echoing the words they expect to hear. So sing your song little bird. Sing me a song...

[Zaelsino]

"Let me send word to my bastard at the Dreadfort. My boy would be honoured to bring you Prince Theon's head."

It's a good thing all northern bastards are as nice as Jon Snow, eh?

[Reyzzz]

"Let me send word to my bastard at the Dreadfort. My boy would be honoured to bring you Prince Theon's head."

It's a good thing all northern bastards are as nice as Jon Snow, eh?

You realize you are talking about a house who flay their enemies?

[Zaelsino]

You realize you are talking about a house who flay their enemies?

That's just a lie; everyone knows Lord Roose is like the Eddard Stark of S2. He was just joking about the flaying... but yeah, name dropping a sick fuck who trumps Joffrey on the evil-o-meter spells brilliant news. Can't wait to see how that plays out.

Theon's arc in general is the highlight of the series so far to me. His brutal takeover was brilliantly done ("did you always hate us, Theon?" ), even if Rodrik had to go down prematurely.

[Kivimetsan]

Get up, took your castle.

trolololololo I dont think iv laughed so hard in ages

[Reyzzz]

That's just a lie; everyone knows Lord Roose is like the Eddard Stark of S2. He was just joking about the flaying... but yeah, name dropping a sick fuck who trumps Joffrey on the evil-o-meter spells brilliant news. Can't wait to see how that plays out.

Nobody told Ramsay to abandon their words.

[Valeron]

It's "Little Bird."

They probably should explain why he calls her that. It's not exactly a term of endearment... or is it?

Just in case they do explain his nickname for her, I'll put it in spoilers. Not really a major revelation, but... He mocks her for not being honest about her true feelings about everyone around her and just tweeting platitudes. She's so polite, it's sickening. He knows the sight of his scars repulses her, but she'll even fake courtesy towards him. He knows she despises Joffrey and the entire court for that matter, but she'll sing the song about her love for him anyway and her loyalty. She's just echoing the words they expect to hear. So sing your song little bird. Sing me a song...

Yeah, that relationship is much better shown in the books where there is more room for explanation. In the TV series it doesn't come off nearly as well in my opinion.

Not my favorite episode this one. The best thing about it was the Winterfell scenes. I imagine the folks at the Westeros forums are not too happy with this episode either but it is just an adaptation so have to keep that in mind.

[Tore]

You know, there's some alterations I can defend, like condensing Arya's story to all take place in Harrenhal. I can defend shortening Danaerys's stay in the Red Waste. But some things I just can't understand why they did it.

Why replace Jeyne Westerling with a random Volantis girl? The entire arc of that segment of Robb's story is important--Robb getting nailed by an arrow sends Cat on her downward spiral. Robb getting treated by the daughter of a family he battled gives him insight into the people of the westlands. And finally, falling in love with the daughter of Lannister bannermen rubs salt in the Frey's wounds. And they thought it was wise to just cut it all? They could have told that same story arc in all the time this Talissa girl has been on screen.

Stealing the dragons and killing Irri was completely unnecessary. That's 2 close members of Dany's khalassar killed for no reason so far while letting the one who was supposed to die live. Dany was going to the House of the Undying anyway, and she's supposed to take Drogon with her. Now... blah, why? What's the purpose?

They screwed the scene where Myrcella is sent to Dorne. She's supposed to be stoic and stone faced, comforting her little brother. Instead they had her bawling on the boat. Myrcella being so brave and dutiful is a major part of her character and the driving force behind something that happens later on.

They failed to introduce the Kettleblacks who were due for boning Cersei about two episodes ago. That means they'll either introduce them when she adds Osmund to the small council or they simply won't introduce them which will have massive repercussions later on.

And I think it's time to officially abandon all hope for Little Walder, Big Walder, Jojen, and Meera. Four characters completely routed.

Last night's episode was a well-produced piece of television but a horrible adaptation from the book. I don't know why they're willfully omitting so many things while adding so many other unnecessary scenes.

[Jackmoves]

Jaqen said "The Red God" in the book. It's not an alteration.

The most prevalent theory is he used the Red God since they were going to die by fire. Were they drowning, he may have said "The Drowned God.")

As I understood it by the books Jaqen is a foreigner, from one of the free cities and the red god is quite big over there, king robert had a priest of the red god in his court as well if I remember correctly. I always thought it was the red god aka the god that mellisandre(sp) is priestess of that Jaqen refered to.

[Tore]

As I understood it by the books Jaqen is a foreigner, from one of the free cities and the red god is quite big over there, king robert had a priest of the red god in his court as well if I remember correctly. I always thought it was the red god aka the god that mellisandre(sp) is priestess of that Jaqen refered to.

It is. The Red God R'hollor is the god of fire. "Owing lives to the Red God" is said because the three men were going to be killed in the fire, but Arya spared them. Thus the Red God didn't get what he wanted and lives must be repaid. The Drowned God is the god worshiped in the Iron Islands. He is said to feast in a great hall beneath the sea. Like Disenchanted said, if the three men had been drowning rather than burning, Jaqen might have invoked the name of the Drowned God instead.

Jaqen has what might be called a special interpretation of the gods and religions. We'll see and hear more about it a few seasons from now.

[Raleik]

And I think it's time to officially abandon all hope for Little Walder, Big Walder, Jojen, and Meera. Four characters completely routed.

I'm really really disappointed that the Reeds apparently aren't going to be in the show... That's going to screw up Bran's whole path over the next few seasons. Plus, they were just awesome, and I loved learning about them and their people.

[Gallahadd]

Hmmm, See I was quite liking this episode... until the last five minutes...

The Riots in King's Landing were superb, I was REALLY frightened during the scene with Sansa, even though I knew she'd be fine(more of less...), and then when the hound pimped in and went all Incredible Hulk, I actually cheared , good to see both him being a mackdaddy pimpmaster, and him getting closer with Sansa, I always really liked this relationship, and it puts you in a favourable mood towards the hound, which we'll need as... a certain journey he goes on soon looks like it may be cut out. Also any scene where Tyrion hits Joffrey is a top scene, but this one was particularly awesome, because of Tyrion's Rant, which was top notch.

Harrenhal was as always epic, Again they've swapped names, but Amory Loch was a pretty nothing character, no REAL loss to kill him off now (not like last weeks ) and Charles Dance continues to be legendary, I think he's giving Peter Dinklage a run for his money in the 'best actor' stakes this year... maybe give Tyrion 'best actor' and Tywin 'Best supporting'? the real question though.... did Littlefinger recognise Arya?... I really hope not...

Winterfell... and finally the character I hate even more than Joffery earns his place at the top of my list for Jaqen.... But I've got to say it was amazingly done, was my favourite scene of the show. Rodrick Cassell's death was tragic, but his last words were fucking epic, so he went down like a true man of the north.

Robb's scenes.... myeh pretty boring, I'm not really sure why they wrote out Jayne Westerling... maybe something against the name Jayne? Poole was written out as well, even though she's fucking crucial later on.... and seriously... Tulisa? You realise I can now not take ANYTHING that happens with this whole arc seriously? At least there was mention of the Bastard of Boltan, I'm guessin he's in next season then, hopefully along with the Brave Companions and the Reeds.

Jon's part annoyed me slightly, I like the casting for Ygritte, she's pretty hot, not amazing, but hot enough for the character, and she seems to have got the spirit of Ygritte down perfectly, which is FAR more important *cough*shae needs to be replaced, even though she was pretty good in this episode...*cough*, not really sure where they're going with this whole 'time spent away' thing... just let her run and leave it at that for now... although I'm guessing things will get back on track for the next episode, as we know Rattleshirt was cast, so lets hope things get back on track then.

and speaking of things going off track....

what the FUCK Dany... or more importantly what the FUCK guys writing the Qarth scenes, okay so you've put in a bit more story (although true story, no one gives a flying fuck about Xaro Xoan Doxos, not when REAL story is being cut out, we don't need to know he sucked cock and killed people for his riches.) but seriously... what the hell was that ending? NO just... just fucking NNOOOOO, this is approaching 'deal breaker' levels of wrong here, unless Dany goes to the Houses of the Undying next episode, and gets all three dragons back, while seeing all the visions that she is meant to... I may have to stop watching this show, what with Arya's journey being gutted, and them burning some pretty important bridges, this show is looking to be going the way of Legend of the Seeker, and I don't think I can handle that a second time......

next week better be word for fucking WORD taken from the books, I'm not even a tiny bit joking.

[Jackmoves]

It is. The Red God R'hollor is the god of fire. "Owing lives to the Red God" is said because the three men were going to be killed in the fire, but Arya spared them. Thus the Red God didn't get what he wanted and lives must be repaid. The Drowned God is the god worshiped in the Iron Islands. He is said to feast in a great hall beneath the sea. Like Disenchanted said, if the three men had been drowning rather than burning, Jaqen might have invoked the name of the Drowned God instead.

Jaqen has what might be called a special interpretation of the gods and religions. We'll see and hear more about it a few seasons from now.

What I meant was, where is the connection between Jaqen and the drowned god? Read all 5 books but never made that connection. I know where things kind of end up, but the drowned god is never mentioned in that place and why would he refer to a foreign god(the iron isles religion) when he isn't from that part of the world.

Maybe I missed something but it's like a Roman dude refering to Thor or something :P

Anyways, love the relationship that plays out between Tywin and Arya, it brings out the human in Tywin, they also made a good job at explaining a bit of the history about the Lannisters, with Tywins father being a naive man that almost brought the house to ruination. Charles Dance is the king.

This episode was quite entertaining, if one stop trying to compare it to the books(because there is a lot of differences) it's good tv.

[Badpaladin]

This episode was quite entertaining, if one stop trying to compare it to the books(because there is a lot of differences) it's good tv.

Precisely. I already know the story in the books. I want to see what they can do with Martin's characters and change it up a bit while still remaining faithful to his overall artistic vision. It doesn't matter if the story is told in different ways, just so long as each way is good.

[Tore]

What I meant was, where is the connection between Jaqen and the drowned god? Read all 5 books but never made that connection. I know where things kind of end up, but the drowned god is never mentioned in that place and why would he refer to a foreign god(the iron isles religion) when he isn't from that part of the world.

Maybe I missed something but it's like a Roman dude refering to Thor or something :P

It's because Jaqen believes in the Red God [I]and[/I] the Drowned God. And the Seven. And the Old Gods. He is a Faceless Man--he is a follower of the Many-Faced God, the "true" god--the God of Death--who reveals himself in some way in all gods. The Guild of the Faceless Men pay their respects to all gods and the one god.

[Disenchanted]

What I meant was, where is the connection between Jaqen and the drowned god? Read all 5 books but never made that connection. I know where things kind of end up, but the drowned god is never mentioned in that place and why would he refer to a foreign god(the iron isles religion) when he isn't from that part of the world.

Maybe I missed something but it's like a Roman dude refering to Thor or something :P

Anyways, love the relationship that plays out between Tywin and Arya, it brings out the human in Tywin, they also made a good job at explaining a bit of the history about the Lannisters, with Tywins father being a naive man that almost brought the house to ruination. Charles Dance is the king.

This episode was quite entertaining, if one stop trying to compare it to the books(because there is a lot of differences) it's good tv.

Torethyr answered this very well. Re-read the early chapters on the Isle of the Gods in Braavos and the House of Black and White. To the Faceless Men, all religions are valid, as they're all simply a "cultural take" (for lack of a better term) on the one true aspect of their one god. And they have representations of virtually all of the known religions there. This is why some of us book readers... the conspiracy theorists especially... perked up last year when Syrio said "There is only one god. And that god is Death." He never says that in the book. He never mentions religion at all. But GRRM wrote that scene so he had a reason (hint?) for putting that line in there. Could be as simple as Syrio just happens to come from Braavos and subscribes to that view point... or it could be that Syrio is more than he seems. If that is the case, I'm half suspecting we're going to have a definitive answer on it this season - scooping even the books. If that happens, I'm going to love to see the reaction among book fans.

---------- Post added 2012-05-08 at 09:32 AM ----------

Precisely. I already know the story in the books. I want to see what they can do with Martin's characters and change it up a bit while still remaining faithful to his overall artistic vision. It doesn't matter if the story is told in different ways, just so long as each way is good.

I don't disagree. Mostly.

As I've said, I don't mind consolidating scenes, or speeding events up, or combining characters into one character. I don't mind their taking liberty by adding new scenes to advance the story.

But making changes just because. Throwing silly elements in for the sake of spicing up a flat story (such as how Qarth is going) can backfire if it's ridiculous. So far, they would have been better off just leaving the Qarth storyline the way it was. Yes, these parts in the book are slow and not very dramatic until a certain point. But it doesn't resemble a campy soap opera either. Right now, Qarth feels like watching "All my Dragons," or "The Young and the Weird Rich Guys." They're better than that. It feels trite and contrived.

And the (hopefully only temporary and slight) change to Jon's encounter with Ygritte similarly feels overly contrived and unnecessary.

Some changes I like. Some I can live with even if they annoy me. But there are certain things that are so canon, they're untouchable. Mess with those, and I'll have a huge problem.