1. #1

    Healing in a raid environment

    A couple of days back someone was asking in trade chat for a healer to do Cho'gall. With me being a decent Holy Priest, I thought I'd give it a try.
    I know the tactics, when to stack, when to move etc...

    My gear isn't the best, but with lack of crafted and rep rewards with spirit it's fairly decent until I decide to start raiding.
    I was eventually declined a space because "My stats were all wrong"
    Not enough regen/haste/mastery. (This was via armoury so no buffs/flasks)

    I was told to get an extra tick on renew then reforge to mastery. But with Heal refreshing it and Renew only being used in Chakra: Serenity anyway, is it worth sacrificing other stats for the extra tick? Or am I doing it wrong (Not using renew a lot), I tend to only use it in Serenity.

    Armoury link - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...C3%A1ra/simple
    Can you critique my gear and see if any improvements can be made short of raiding upgrades and enchants that need Maelstrom Crystals (Dat cost O.o)?

    P.S Yes there's PvP gear! I think it's BiS pre raid/expensive world drops....

  2. #2
    Im healing as holypriest myself, and atleast i wud say go for the 12% haste for the extra renew tick (but be aware of its raidbuffed, not selfbuffed) And since ur lacking some gear ur mana regen wud be a problem, so stacking even more haste cud be dangerous, but renew and coh is very mana efficient thesedays, so should not be a problem, the mastery its most likely overhealing, but i wud say go for it, cause when the time comes you need to be disc, mastery is winwin.. So go for the 12% soft cap, and after the, its ur decision on whatever you like. Or whatever your mana can take.

  3. #3
    Deleted
    Is this in 10 or 25 man? Your haste rating is enough to reach the 12.5% threshold assuming raidbuffs.

  4. #4
    I would give you a shot, but still they had some good points.
    PvP gear - as long as you cant get any better, sure go with it. But reforge resilience to mastery. Or something else but if you want to do pve with this gear, reforging is the way to go.
    You have resilience gem in shoulders, that does not show your intention to do pve at all. Sorry you can't have it both ways.

    In general mastery is you strongest stat atm, so everywhere you can gem for it (you have 40 haste gem in legs -> go for int+mastery), enchant for it and reforge anywhere you can for mastery.
    Also get belt buckle.

    Raiding Holy priest in my raid group has 3.18 % haste unbuffed, and is topping the metters:
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ilath/advanced
    Last edited by Ehtnalav; 2011-03-21 at 12:28 PM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Ehtnalav View Post
    I would give you a shot, but still they had some good points.
    PvP gear - as long as you cant get any better, sure go with it. But reforge resilience to mastery. Or something else but if you want to do pve with this gear, reforging is the way to go.
    You have resilience gem in shoulders, that does not show your intention to do pve at all. Sorry you can't have it both ways.

    In general mastery is you strongest stat atm, so everywhere you can gem for it (you have 40 haste gem in legs -> go for int+mastery), enchant for it and reforge anywhere you can for mastery.
    Also get belt buckle.

    Raiding Holy priest in my raid group has 3.18 % haste unbuffed, and is topping the metters:
    You can't reforge resilience at all. In my opinion more than one or two pieces of PvP gear means you're not ready to do later PvE raid bosses. You miss out on haste, spirt, and/or mastery in place of resilience. Some dps can get by fine with PvP gear but I'd say healing is a very unforgiving role to be wearing PvP gear in a PvE environment.

  6. #6
    Just tried and you can't reforge Resilience away. I would have change the gem in the shoulders if I had been invited in. It only matters in a raid environment so I keep it there for PvP and HC's.

    I always thought that mastery=crit and haste would be better to chase. I must be behind on stat priorities.
    That gem was given to me when I had no gold... forgot I even had it!
    Belt buckle obtained and gemmed!

    Assuming all of the available raid buffs were used; how much haste would be needed before I go over the extra tick?
    Also, ideal spirit level? Assuming Spirit flask and food.

    And I do believe it was 10-man.

  7. #7
    Deleted
    http://elitistjerks.com/f77/t110245-...st_compendium/

    Everything you need to know about Priest numbers is in there.

    Read the section on Haste. With the 5% raid buff and 3 points in Darkness, you need 515.5 haste rating for the 5th Renew tick.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Gibbsy999 View Post
    And I do believe it was 10-man.
    In 10 man (at least imo) just meeting the bare minimum of 12.5% haste is not enough. While I absolutely love the idea of mastery, it ends up overhealing in my 10 man groups way too much. I have switched to a much higher haste build (I'm at 13% before buffs) and find that it works much better for me. I end up at 2 second cast times and that tends to help me a lot. (I have about a 60% / 40% haste to mastery rating on armory).

    Also, I was shooting for 2500 spirit or so, and when i arrived there before flasks, I ended up switching to the Int flasks for the throughput. And then I even ended up down in the mid 2300's once I bought the Tsunami card, but with 100% uptime on that 400 spirit I end up at 2750 before my cloak and/or heartsong procs.

  9. #9
    Deleted
    Question is, which classes give a 5% buff? I used to have over 13% haste selfbuffed, which was a big waste since I wanted a lot more mastery. Now I'm down to 10,2% haste selfbuffed but since I don't really know which classes give haste buff, I find I'm often still at 10% in our raids.

    I know warlocks dark intent gives haste, is it only to the specific person targetted, and can any warlock spec do it? What other classes give any form of hastebuff?

  10. #10
    Deleted
    Raiding in 25 man and former 10 man environment, I always go full out mastery as any healing that doesnt require casting (mana) is to prefer. In 10 man you fight with manaissues alot more than in 25 (at least without a shaman and in my own experience). I would say to go full out on mastery and spirit.

    Also using intell flask/food for the replenishment effect in raids, if you dont have a replenishment class in 10 man I would propably go for spirit instead.

  11. #11
    haste buff can be Boomkin, Ele Shammy, and SPriests I believe are the 3.

  12. #12
    Don't socket resilience!
    One can argue about the benefits of more Int which you will get from PvP-Gear (over heroicgear), but a Resiliencegem is a nogo in PvE!

    If hou have the choice... don't use gear with initial critrating as a secondarystat for raidhealing. You don't WANT crit. It's nice to have, but you gain nothing from it except of some unpredictable and therefore unreliable healingoutput. There is nothing worse than an unreliable healer.
    For singletargethealing, especially as Disc, it's another story, but as you called yourself a Holypriest.... you don't want crit.
    I think Spiritus posted a nice explanation on the faults of crit in raidhealing.

    Gale of shadows as a holypriest is kinda... meeeh. For me, it NEVER stacks from echoticks, so the only trigger for gale to stack SP is your renew. And it's slow. If you wan't throughput, go for Inttrinkets. Int is throughput and regen -> Int is what you desire.

  13. #13
    Int = Throughput (SP/Crit) and Regen(More Int increases amount of regen from Spr, Higher mana pool gives you more mana back from replenishment/fiend/hymn)
    Spr = Regen
    Haste = Throughput (12.5% gets an extra tick on renew, which makes it a very efficient spell, don't be afraid to use it on people with mediumish health who aren't going to take more damage; however it is definately still a great stat past 12.5%)
    Mastery = Throughput (extra free healing) and Regen (regen in the sense that if free heals are going out, that actually heal not overheal, it is less mana you will have to spend on another heal)
    Crit = Throughput (Without having a water shield type mechanic such as Shamans, crit only increases the unpredictability of your heals. Which is bad. You want to be able to know about how much your heal is going to heal for. On top of that crit is farther devalued as Holy through our talents already giving us a large amount of it.)

    When I was gearing up, I went for a priority system like this...

    Int >>> Spr >> Mastery > Haste >> Crit

    I gemmed and geared(reforged) heavily for spirit and mastery to increase my regen.

    Now that I have more gear, I am more around

    Int >>> Spr > Haste > Mastery >> Crit

    As I value the regen from spirit less as I have so much (and larger mana pool for the aforementioned avenues of mana gain) so I still value spirit as my second best stat, not as much so as before; getting more pieces with no spirit on them. I now gem/reforge for Haste to increase my throughput greatly.
    About EP:
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldriana
    With the usual caveats about these numbers being based on a specific set of gear which probably isn't what you're using, such that these answers will be approximately right but not exact
    Vanilla: 60 Shaman
    BC: 70 Rogue, 70 Druid
    Wrath: 80 Druid, 80 Paladin, 80 Shaman, 80 Rogue
    Cata: 85 Rogue (Holmés), 85 Priest (Naclwater)

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gibbsy999 View Post
    I would have change the gem in the shoulders if I had been invited in. It only matters in a raid environment so I keep it there for PvP and HC's.
    Considering your invite is based on your armory you might want to consider changing the gem BEFORE you ask for an invite. Call me crazy.

    Also, I've never ever used the spirit flask, ever. You'd have to not only give me the flask for free but you'd also have to pay me a substantial amount of gold to use it.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Ehtnalav View Post
    Raiding Holy priest in my raid group has 3.18 % haste unbuffed, and is topping the metters:
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ilath/advanced
    You should probably mention that you can put anygem into a belt buckle slot, +10 stats is a little lacking.

  16. #16
    Kara, I would make the following suggestions if you are seriously wanting to start raiding:

    1) Reforge your current chest, bracers, mace, and Ring of Frozen Rain: crit > mastery

    2) Heroic instance upgrades include: Shoulders- Mantle of Loss from SFK, Trinket: Blood of Iseset, and there are a couple of options for better rings for you instead of that PVP ring.

    3) There are several Valor Point items that you should be trying to acquire: Helm- Mask of New Snow (easily pre-raiding BiS), Ring- Twined Band of Flowers, Trinket- Core of Ripeness, and Legs- Leggings of Charity. These are all big upgrades to what you have now so I would really focus on VP farming.

    4) The Hyjal rep belt is BiS, you should make that a priority. Put a rep tabard on- it helps with rep grinding a lot!

    5) You can also farm two nice items, a ring and a trinket (both slots you have weak items in currently) with Archaeology.

    Your gems and enchants look fine however at your gear and raid level I would go with int/mastery over int/haste gems for the yellow slots.

    I'm guessing it was the combination of the bad stats, i.e. too much crit and haste and too little mastery, PVP gear, and the lack of raid experience that caused them to decline you. You can fix the first two with a little work on your part. Good luck.

  17. #17
    My main advice to you (besides what has been said about PVP gear/gems) is to reforge the crit on your gear into something more useful. As has been pointed out, crit is our least valuable stat.

    Whether you chose to reforge haste or mastery is strictly up to you. I try to balance the two stats; I think it's silly to stop shooting for haste at only 12.5% -- Prayer of Healing is easily our strongest heal and continues to benefit from haste long after you reach that extra tick of Renew. I raid with a guild trying 25-man heroic modes, so I pick my stats knowing that there will be a lot of cross-healing and that my Echo of Light doesn't usually get to tick for it's full value. For 10-man normals where you can find yourself as the only raid healer, mastery will have more value. Reforge and play around with stat balance until you feel comfortable -- the argument about whether haste or mastery is superior has been done to death; consult logs and look at breakdowns of what spells are doing the most healing for you and decide intelligently.

    Your regen looks fine for normal 10-man raids to me -- just carry a mix of int and spirit flasks/food with you and pick which seems appropriate for the raid comp. Spirit can good if you're missing replenishment and feel tight on mana, but int will almost always win out. You will know better than some pug raid leader if you need more regen.

    Kinetic is recruiting DPS for mythic raids! (10/10H, US-Alexstrasza Alliance.)

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariahna View Post
    1) Reforge your current chest, bracers, mace, and Ring of Frozen Rain: crit > mastery

    2) Heroic instance upgrades include: Shoulders- Mantle of Loss from SFK, Trinket: Blood of Iseset, and there are a couple of options for better rings for you instead of that PVP ring.

    3) There are several Valor Point items that you should be trying to acquire: Helm- Mask of New Snow (easily pre-raiding BiS), Ring- Twined Band of Flowers, Trinket- Core of Ripeness, and Legs- Leggings of Charity. These are all big upgrades to what you have now so I would really focus on VP farming.

    4) The Hyjal rep belt is BiS, you should make that a priority. Put a rep tabard on- it helps with rep grinding a lot!

    5) You can also farm two nice items, a ring and a trinket (both slots you have weak items in currently) with Archaeology.

    Your gems and enchants look fine however at your gear and raid level I would go with int/mastery over int/haste gems for the yellow slots.

    I'm guessing it was the combination of the bad stats, i.e. too much crit and haste and too little mastery, PVP gear, and the lack of raid experience that caused them to decline you. You can fix the first two with a little work on your part. Good luck.
    1) Reforged
    2) Shoulders I hadn't thought about
    3) I'm literally farming JP for them now, the VP, however, will take time
    4) Figures the only craftable Spirit item isn't BiS... And I was enjoying wearing no tabard... I'm on it!
    5) I knew the day would come when Archaeology would have to be maxed. More grinding!?

    I guess I'm on it...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thexx View Post
    Your regen looks fine for normal 10-man raids to me -- just carry a mix of int and spirit flasks/food with you and pick which seems appropriate for the raid comp. Spirit can good if you're missing replenishment and feel tight on mana, but int will almost always win out. You will know better than some pug raid leader if you need more regen.
    It's a choice between throuput and regen, I went with regen because my spirit isn't all that high

  19. #19
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by crazyb View Post
    haste buff can be Boomkin, Ele Shammy, and SPriests I believe are the 3.
    This made me really sad, until I went and checked it myself. There's a slight error: Any shammy can give the haste buff. So our resto shaman we're getting soon will safely get me beyond 12.5% haste.

    Should also be noted that warlocks can give a 3% haste buff with dark intent, but it's not something one should expect since it's generally prefered on dps and most raids will have a boomkin, mage or shadow priest.

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