Vanilla WoW and BC times missed

[Cloux]

Ok I started playing WoW in mid 2006, and even earlier than that in 2005, I still remember being at my friends seeing them and remember them having very frustrating times (and I would think dang it would be cool to try this game, it just seems so challenging)when they just couldn't succeed in a raid group or dungeon because of the group being disorganized by just 1 or 2 members of the raid were not sure what they were doing, or were just messing around or just a matter of not having the right number of a certain class. And there were also many times I would see one of them raise the roof from execitment because they had actually succeeded in beating that certain part of the game. This is before I even had any interest in WoW (Or PC games in general).

Then when I started playing it was a few months into the BC error and I remember it took me about 5 to 6 months just to get to level 60,then like another month or 2 to get to 70, and I won't lie there were ALOT annoying and frustrating times when I would get upset because things just did not go my way, and I just could not get a certain quest or dungeon /raid, or a drop either because it not dropping or somebody else outrolling me on it.

Anyway to the point I am trying to make, the game is just much less execiting and appealing to me and I personally know several people that feel the same. Its the lack of a good challenge when you would need to grind for weeks or even months on in to acheive something you want, I know some people will disagree but thats the kind of thing we like, the feeling of being unique compared to most, the challenge that made it so fun, and thinking "WoW I actually just acheived something that most other people never could" The fun of trying to put a 40 man raid together to raid a world boss like the dragon in Ashenvale or Duskwood, or even a 20 man raid to do AQ 20 and actually being able to complete it even with most of our raid being level 70, it was still super challenging and if somebody didn't know a part of the mechanics it would wipe us. Now you see somebody could just get a tank with some sort of common sense and decent gear to come in and pull half of a dungeon and win.

Now I ask what makes this any different than somebody paying a powerleveling or gold farming website to level for them or get some extra easy cash in game? I am not trying to put you guys in the spolight or anything Blizzard, but when people start whinning then you guys lower the standards of a raid or boss and it rips away the challenge for ALOT of other people.

Now I know Lich King is over, but I have seen several great guilds that used to be on my server that disbanded from lack of good challenges (Tempora Heroica, Kane Mutiny just to name a couple) and didn't have to put much effort into an encounter, so there was no point in keeping the guild together if any average joe could go in and acheive the same thing without much effort, same goes for epics.

This is all coming from a casual player myself, just speculating and thinking of the times I used to have in game and why I even started playing the game, Its just sickening watching it happen like this over the years, anybody else can feel free to comment or post your feelings on the matter too if I get enough good replies I will take this thread to WoW forums with a few friends of mine, thanks for your time and hopefully Blizzard will see this and figure out why people are flaking off their subscriptions, and try to change it.

[Simca]

I'm really confused - the topic seems to be referring to the difficulty of Vanilla and TBC dungeons... yet even Wrath heroics were harder at the start than Vanilla dungeons. Vanilla dungeons were a joke, really... time consuming amounts of trash and bosses with 1 ability. It was a complete lolfest. TBC heroics were hard at the very beginning, but no different than the difficulty of pre-nerf Cataclysm heroics.

So yeah, it's fine to be disillusioned because it feels less exciting or appealing to you. However, if you think Vanilla was more "challenging", I think that's just nostalgia talking. It was more challenging to find 40 people for a raid than 25, if that's what you mean.

[romant]

due to op addons and stupidly powerful abilities the game has become simple. The actual boss mechanics have become sooooo much more difficult over the years but the player base now has videos and more workable strats, plus the help of some good add ons.

I do agree the game has become a tad dry.

[MrHappy]

so u miss the times of broken and imbalanced classes where a rogue wearing white armor coudl beat highwarlord everything else and u miss the terrible quests and u miss the dificulty of vannila stuff where wrath and cata heroics were/are harder than any vannilla dungeon ever ...oh did u also miss the 4h runs in stratholme?

[Cloux]

I'm really confused - the topic seems to be referring to the difficulty of Vanilla and TBC dungeons... yet even Wrath heroics were harder at the start than Vanilla dungeons. Vanilla dungeons were a joke, really... time consuming amounts of trash and bosses with 1 ability. It was a complete lolfest. TBC heroics were hard at the very beginning, but no different than the difficulty of pre-nerf Cataclysm heroics.

I don't ever remember Wrath being hard unless you had a complete moron in your group, I am more of reffering to how easy it is to acheive things now oppossed to older times, now I agree with certain things like spell changes and stuff, but just not the overall difficulty of the game, just takes hardly any effort now when you have people with common sense.

[Pshaw]

BC was my favorite time to play WoW. I agree with what you're saying making it fun. Also the community was tighter before the addition of the dungeon finder but these points have been gone over a thousand times before.

The thing that kills me about WoW and posts like this where people pine for more difficulty is that you can make things more challenging for yourself if you so desire. In many console games people make up various rules that they self enforce for no other reason than the challenge of it. For the most part this seems to be non-existent in WoW.

If you want a challenge make the game a challenge. Go ahead and use gray/white items only. Don't fight any mobs except those 4+ levels higher than you. Do no quests. Take no gathering professions. Find a group of people also looking for a challenge and make a guild that plays this way and try to do some old raids this way.

I think the primary reason WoW players in general choose not to take on these challenges is because it's constantly changing. Console games are stuck how they are so you have to make up these challenges or play something else. With WoW people hope they complain enough and the game will be able to change into what it used to be, or what people assumed it used to be.

[Simca]

due to op addons and stupidly powerful abilities the game has become simple. The actual boss mechanics have become sooooo much more difficult over the years but the player base now has videos and more workable strats, plus the help of some good add ons.

I do agree the game has become a tad dry.

You're kidding right?

In both Vanilla and TBC, many, many classes had 1 or 2 buttons to push. There were tons of spare GCDs for a lot of classes. I played a Destruction Warlock and topped meters with my fearsome 1-button rotation.

In Vanilla, the game was entirely a joke for healers because addons automated everything. You could literally watch TV and play and outperform people without automatic decision addons.

[Cowiesh]

Execiting? The game is quite the same. Get to max level, get gear, raid for more gear. It have always been like this. People are less execiting for the fact that, a boss here in Cata and one in TBC, the only difference is the place, the skin and the mechanics. Sometimes it's just different mechanics from some fights put together. It ain't satisfying to down a new boss as it was in TBC.
Vanilla was a joke when it came to raiding. Some bosses had one ability, a fear or maybe a debuff you need to dispell. Heck look at most bosses in MC. The hard part was getting a full team of players who didn't afk in the raid and actually trained dispell and could press it.

As for dungeons now and then. It's really the same. HC's in the first 4 months have always been hard for all. The difference is if your group is in there for the first time with blue gear, or they got half epics and it's their 15run. The same shit.

Cata raids are only harder now because it contains more mechanics, rng abilities which can wipe you, and the new healing system and bosses hit harder, while some fights require a few players to play their A-game. Like nef p3 kiter, Halfus HC interrupter, tanks on Chim, ranged group on Magmaw, etc etc. But if all know what they do and can do it, it's as easy. Tbc and Wotlk just had less of these abilities to deal with. Lich King was hard for most groups because of Defile. One player could wipe the raid in less than 3sec, but once all the players knew what to do, it wasn't a problem.

[Koshun]

I can see what threads are going to be titled once the fourth expansion hits: Vanilla, TBC, and Wrath times missed.

This seems to be a pattern.

[Simca]

I can see what threads are going to be titled once the fourth expansion hits: Vanilla, TBC, and Wrath times missed.

This seems to be a pattern.

Yeah, apparently I'm the only person who remembers when the community consensus was that TBC was terrible and was killing the game (early TBC).

It's actually very funny how these threads shift with time as things become nostalgic.

[sulfuric]

I can see what threads are going to be titled once the fourth expansion hits: Vanilla, TBC, and Wrath times missed.

This seems to be a pattern.

Who the hell would ever miss WOTLK?

[dbrees]

Congratulations! You are the millionth person to start a thread with this EXACT topic. Your prize is.....drumroll......get a life. If you want a stagnant gaming experience go play console, or do a campaign game that doesn't EVER change. If you like Vanilla so much, level a character to 60, lock exp, and raid to your hearts content. I encourage you to do this. It would alleviate pressure from Blizzard having to deal with people who miss the "good ole days". In fact, I encourage you to create an entire guild filled with people who feel the exact same way. My guess is that the experience will last a month maybe two, and then people will become bored with content. Nostalgia will evaporate as soon as things become psuedo-challenging. And people will go back to their mains.

[sulfuric]

Congratulations! You are the millionth person to start a thread with this EXACT topic. Your prize is.....drumroll......get a life. If you want a stagnant gaming experience go play console, or do a campaign game that doesn't EVER change. If you like Vanilla so much, level a character to 60, lock exp, and raid to your hearts content. I encourage you to do this. It would alleviate pressure from Blizzard having to deal with people who miss the "good ole days". In fact, I encourage you to create an entire guild filled with people who feel the exact same way. My guess is that the experience will last a month maybe two, and then people will become bored with content. Nostalgia will evaporate as soon as things become psuedo-challenging. And people will go back to their mains.

Level 60 gaming is dead. Talents were changed, things removed, instances removed, glyphs added, abilities removed. Telling someone to lock their xp and raid at level 60 if they "liked vanilla" is an extremely ignorant statement. The game is completely different now

[gamerunknown]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...03#post8509703

I've posted it on other forums and here before, but it bears repeating.

[dbrees]

@sulfuric: true but Bliz would never create a server with only vanilla content, or BC for that matter. The only way for someone to experience the "good ole days" would be my solution.

[Pshaw]

Level 60 gaming is dead. Talents were changed, things removed, instances removed, glyphs added, abilities removed. Telling someone to lock their xp and raid at level 60 if they "liked vanilla" is an extremely ignorant statement. The game is completely different now

Sad but true. Everything is tuned completely differently now then it was then. Even back at the start of BC I seem to remember fresh servers killing Rag with trashblades in the raid. You can't expect the same game experience at all.

[Koshun]

Who the hell would ever miss WOTLK?

Just an observation. People didn't seem to miss TBC after Wrath came out either, so I was just posting (sarcastically) that thats probably coming down the road.

[aztr0]

Another one of these "I miss the good ol' days" threads? I certainly loved the ridiculous time it took to complete a dungeon back in the day in vanilla. Not to mention, getting accepted in a guild that does consistent 40m raids. Btw, back in Vanilla, if you were casual, your chances of seeing the end boss was 0 to none. How many guilds actually reached Naxx 60 and did anything productive there? I would probably guess not many. While we're at it, I loved how BC heroics were about... Heroic Mechanaar because that was like the only place that PUGs had a very good chance of completing. A lot of casual guilds were stuck farming Kara, Gruul and Mag attempted to make their way through The Eye, which is the cockblock to, BT, Hyjal and Sunwell. Hmm so Cataclysm lacked so much challenge yet it took elite guilds quite some time to down heroic bosses that they would have been done with in LK? That sounds very accurate about your claims.

[sulfuric]

@sulfuric: true but Bliz would never create a server with only vanilla content, or BC for that matter. The only way for someone to experience the "good ole days" would be my solution.

You don't seem to understand dude. Locking your XP at level 60 does not make "vanilla" reappear, half the level 60 raid instances have been removed and given to you again in WOTLK and cataclysm, player abilities have been added and removed, racials changed, races and classes added, expertise, armor pen, and mastery have been added, weapon skill and glancing blows have been removed, glyphs have been added.

Vanilla will never be experienced by anyone again, regardless of anything short of rolling back the entire game to that time period. Telling someone that "THe content is still there" is completely wrong. The game is no longer that game it used to be

[Foreteller]

I agree with all these "miss Vanilla & BC" threads, but they all end up having the same fate.

You're very right about it being sad to watch Blizzard take one of the best games of all time and strip it of its creativity,challenge and overall enjoyment.
But Stop posting them on MMO Champion, this site is full of many Blizzard worshipers who think everything they do to Wow is "for the better".

Post it on the WoW forms, get it out there.
Change needs to happen NOAWW!