Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst
1
2
  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by gynshon View Post
    No I am not wrong. 12 agi gain is > 64 hit. Main stats before secondary all day long, every day. It may be BIS for your particular gear set because you aren't pushing the envelope yet, but don't make a general statement that it is BIS when it actually isn't. There are so many items with hit out there it isn't funny, as we are reforging large chunks of hit to Expertise/Mastery. BIS list changes depending on your current gear, and stat changes.

    Simming with changing up the 2 relics and reforge choices to get as close to the caps as possible still puts the 359 above the 346. Every time.

    I am already reforging 219 hit away, so why in God's earth would I want 64 more hit?
    Agi has an EP value of 2.5 for me. 12 Agi = ~30 EP.
    Hit has an EP value of ~1.4 for me, before the cap. The hit is worth ~89 EP. Furthermore, some of this can be reforged into Mastery.

    Sandshift is better than the valor relic. Saying "I am already reforging 200+ hit" is irrelevant. I've got nearly 500 reforged, that doesn't mean the gear with hit isn't generally strictly better than the other options.
    || Yuuzu - 85 Draenei Enh Shaman || Soulu - 85 Worgen Arms Warrior ||
    || Revii - 85 Draenei Blood DK || Convivia of <Bacchanalia> of Durotan US ||


    The river flows outside of town/ Away from dirt, away from crowds/
    And if I could follow it to the sea/ I'd wash the sweat right off of me/
    So break my legs and weigh me down/ Throw me in, but I won't drown/
    I'll float away, go down the stream/ The river leads outside this city.

    Million Dead - Carthagio Est Delenda

  2. #22
    Looking at raw dps given from Sandshift and the VP relic, we get the following (this is also assuming 40 Agi gem and 0 reforges -- also EP value before prior to Spell hit cap):

    Sandshift:
    Agility - 445.5
    Hit - 76.8
    Crit - 50.22
    Total -- 572.52

    VP:
    Agility - 485.1
    Crit - 58.32
    Haste - 25.92
    Total -- 569.32

    So assuming you aren't hit capped from other gear, the 346 relic will slightly edge out. However, This does not mean that in full 372 gear that a person should give up all the extra Agility just for a minor amount of Hit (that's easily gained in other places).

  3. #23
    The way I see it, hit on gear is only bad if You are already at cap and you can't reforge it to mastery (piece already has mastery has a second stat) or expertise (if you are already cap). Since we can reforge all the gear usually its possible to juggle around, get the caps and good amount of mastery.

  4. #24
    The problem is the EP values change once you hit caps. If you are already at caps, your EP values for Hit/Expertise go way down, but Agility will always remain the same. You have to take in account for all gear, not just 1 piece, and take in account all values even if they change.

    Sig made by Shyama. Click sig for current Warlock armory.

  5. #25
    Right. I completely agree with you, Gynshon. I guess I could calculate it again using after cap values just to be thorough, but I'm with you in regards to the VP relic being better than the Sandshift relic at/near BiS levels.

    EDIT: Screw it. I'm calculating it post cap.

    Sandshift:
    Agility - 445.5
    Hit - 19.2
    Crit - 50.22
    Total -- 514.92

    VP:
    Agility - 485.1
    Crit - 58.32
    Haste - 25.92
    Total -- 569.32

    So as you can see, if you have spell hit cap already from other items (even if you're already at the point of reforging away your hit), you lose dps by not upgrading.
    Last edited by Radux; 2011-03-28 at 07:04 PM.

  6. #26
    Epic! Dave131's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Pasadena, Ca.
    Posts
    1,584
    Ya know what I would like to see, a BIS list with NON-Heroic raiding gear on it.

    My guild is only 11/12 right now and likely won'y be attempting Heroic modes for some time so I would like to know what to spend my DKP on right now
    “Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but the bible says love your enemy." ~Frank Sinatra

  7. #27
    I put up both a pre-raid list and a bis list for heroic gear and you still want more! :O

  8. #28
    Grunt
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Bradford, England
    Posts
    24
    It's because your so awesome tides!! I'm using that guide for hc gearing up now! Just wish my groups would stop skipping the bosses I need in HoO hc!!!

    <3
    Last edited by Melvin; 2011-03-29 at 02:11 PM.

  9. #29
    I think we can all agree that the VP relic is just a very minor upgrade over the sandshift relic.

    If by any means you can do some reforging and the hit of sandshift is usable, use it.
    If you already reforge hit --> expertise/mastery and you have hard times not being overcapped on hit (I'm really not there yet), VP is better.

    They are very comparable and which one is best totally depends on your current gear like everyone said.
    I know agi > all, and I do see more dps when switching out a lower ilvl piece with hit/mastery on it for haste/crit, however this is really minor compared to a higher tier piece with mastery/hit on them.

    eg
    if i replace my therazane ring with hit/mastery on it for the VP ring and reforge for caps, i gain an astonishing 0,3% dps increase according to the sim.
    if i switch relics it's an even more whooping 0,1% according to the sim.
    the neck from HoO with expertise and hit on it is also very hard to replace with an ilvl359 neck when you are still having problems with caps for similar reasons and don't think you will see a big dps increase.

    Yes it's better, but don't be foolish, these upgrades aren't going to make or break your dps, and save your VP/DKP for the bigger upgrades and keep these for last when you have enough freedom to reach the caps or don't have anything left to spend VP/DKP on.

    I hope blizz will buff the value of crit and haste a bit for us, i think this is contributing to the fact that we scale poorly when gearing up. Many other classes have 2 desirable secondary stats after hitting the caps, we only have mastery.

  10. #30

  11. #31
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by dawawe View Post
    the main question i have is, Why is everyone so far over 11% spell hit? With the passive mastery you're at 17% until 4.1 hits. Unless im missing something.
    Dual Wield-passive talent doesn't give spell hit chance, if I'm understanding your question correctly

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by dawawe View Post
    the main question i have is, Why is everyone so far over 11% spell hit? With the passive mastery you're at 17% until 4.1 hits. Unless im missing something.
    Wow.......just........wow.

    Sig made by Shyama. Click sig for current Warlock armory.

  13. #33
    Brewmaster dawawe's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Atl, Ga
    Posts
    1,265
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesmam View Post
    Dual Wield-passive talent doesn't give spell hit chance, if I'm understanding your question correctly
    If it doesnt give spell hit why is is being changed to no effect spell hit?

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by dawawe View Post
    If it doesnt give spell hit why is is being changed to no effect spell hit?
    because it's a tooltip fix for people like you, who understood it wrong. No offense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Genganger View Post
    Often I just open the fridge instead of turning the lights on in the kitchen. I like that.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •