Many Affliction Locks using Drain Life as Filler?

[Zinnin]

I personally dont see why everyone is saying that latency matters in a DL rotation. Since you can clip your channels/dots now, if you continuasly spamed DL after the first tick, you would still do the same amount of DPCT,

This is not true at all.

First off you CAN clip dots, but it doesn't do the same DPCT, it does the same DPS. The difference being there is a dps increase in clipping your dot at the last possible second, but there is a DPS loss clipping it several gcds early. Lets say you clip your dots before the last tick, you can lose 2-3 seconds of dot time per early clip. So over the course of the fight you might cast lets say Unstable Affliction 12 times instead of the need 9-10. This effectively lowers the DPCT due to not getting the full duration and wasting gcds, however the DPS of dots is still going to be the same.

Second Channeled spells work the same as they always have; if you clip it you lose that tick. If you wan't to try it out go spam drain soul and watch yourself never get a tick.

[Deleted]

I personally dont see why everyone is saying that latency matters in a DL rotation. Since you can clip your channels/dots now, if you continuasly spamed DL after the first tick, you would still do the same amount of DPCT, since it would continuasly tick. I can see mana cost being an issue, though, but with the next patch, with Felhunter's Shadowbite restoring 16% mana, along with it doing a crap ton of damage, i can see DL coming ahead.
.

Because making up game mechanics is fun right? Timing on DL is still important.

[Ferali]

Wouldn't spam something like this be optimal?

/cast [nochanneling: Drain Life] Drain life

[Corgrash]

Wouldn't spam something like this be optimal?

/cast [nochanneling: Drain Life] Drain life

I use this but I have 30ms.
You have to remember that the time in which it takes for you to start recasting Drain life due to latency is taken into account. If you know there is for example 500ms difference, you could re-cast drain life 500ms before you need to and therefore get a perfect transition. If you use this macro however, you cant do this so the 500ms difference between the first cast and the 2nd is still there.

[Ferali]

I use this but I have 30ms.
You have to remember that the time in which it takes for you to start recasting Drain life due to latency is taken into account. If you know there is for example 500ms difference, you could re-cast drain life 500ms before you need to and therefore get a perfect transition. If you use this macro however, you cant do this so the 500ms difference between the first cast and the 2nd is still there.

My latency is around 100 so not sure what would be optimal spam this macro, humans have around 200ms reaction time. I will loose the spell queue but it still might be optimal over SB spam.

[Jenerena]

It would be more of a DPS loss atm to keep shadow and flame up if youre the only one in your group that can provide it. Atm the SB filler and the DL arent too far off eachother in DPS, I personaly like this as it gives us a choice in how we play the spec, makes it feel a bit more special.

In that cast I am much better going with the SB spec, since I normally play demo full time due to lack of spell power buff in our group and reforging to mastery every time I switch may become slightly annoying.

I wouldn't be surprised if people start doing calculations as to exactly how much latency makes DL better (forgive me if this has already been done) but really latency constantly changes and it would take a solid average to work out which is going to do better for you.

[Raugnaut]

Eh.. What i meant is, since channel spells can clip ( I know Mind flay works like this) in were the last tick is added to your next channeled spells tick. So, if you have no haste, so Drain Life is 3 secs with 1 sec ticks, and you have .5 secs on your next tick and recast Drain Life, your next drain life is 3.5 secs, or 4 ticks (3 from the new drain life, and 1 from the old drain life). Im basing this from Mind Flay. If I'm wrong, someone please correct me.

[Seclorum]

Eh.. What i meant is, since channel spells can clip ( I know Mind flay works like this) in were the last tick is added to your next channeled spells tick. So, if you have no haste, so Drain Life is 3 secs with 1 sec ticks, and you have .5 secs on your next tick and recast Drain Life, your next drain life is 3.5 secs, or 4 ticks (3 from the new drain life, and 1 from the old drain life). Im basing this from Mind Flay. If I'm wrong, someone please correct me.

Ok i dont know if you explained that correctly so im first going to attempt to parse what i think your trying to say.

::What I think you meant::

Because Drain life acts like a DOT, if you clip it does the time you clipped roll over into the new drain life?

The answer is no. Channeled spells are treated differently, even if they are acting like DOT's. When you Clip a channel it effectively cancels the spell entirely. so when the new spell is cast there is no previous spell to interact with to gain this functionality.

What you asked would be Great and very wonderful should that be how it works but alas, they do not intend for us to use Drain life in that way so its not likely to be changed to do that.

[nilnar]

To me, affliction's strength's lie in its soulswap cleaving and its execute. Being able to keep shadow embrace up on two targets as affSB spec (ie. 3/3 bane) is a pretty big boost to its cleaving potential, and as such to me its the superior spec.

[Hellfury]

I dont relly like drain life as filler. And actually according to last simcraft, the difference between the 2 even on 4.1 gona be neglectible so I will keep using SB

[Jessicka]

Ok i dont know if you explained that correctly so im first going to attempt to parse what i think your trying to say.

::What I think you meant::

Because Drain life acts like a DOT, if you clip it does the time you clipped roll over into the new drain life?

The answer is no. Channeled spells are treated differently, even if they are acting like DOT's. When you Clip a channel it effectively cancels the spell entirely. so when the new spell is cast there is no previous spell to interact with to gain this functionality.

What you asked would be Great and very wonderful should that be how it works but alas, they do not intend for us to use Drain life in that way so its not likely to be changed to do that.

This.

Even if you're using an addon like Quartz to see the ticks and when to start casting your next spell, you'll see that that red part of the bar can change pretty drastically even over the course of a few seconds which means in order to maximise your activity and minimise the gap between casts you'll be paying what I consider to be an undue level of concentration on your DPS compared to actually dealing with fight mechanics, and where possible Soul Swapping.

Shadow Bolt spec is therefore I feel a far more efficient means of reaching those predicted numbers. Furthermore, as nilar says, it's better for multidotting and maintaining additional Shadow Embrace stacks.

[Geomatician]

with my understanding , mastery always the last choice of a lock

My latest sim results for Demo has mastery ahead of hit rating for me (I have something like 13.8% hit as demo), thus being my best secondary stat. I still reforge for hit even though the sim says I should reforge for mastery though. Just pointing out that your understanding does seem a bit off compared to what my numbers have shown me.


As for the actual topic, yes I unfortunately have to agree with the few who say they dislike DL as a filler. I'm sure it's enjoyable if my connection was stable enough though. For the numerous reasons presented by other's I still play as Shadow Bolt filler. However they are both so close in theoretical that as long as your connection is decent and you know what you're doing you could play either to a good level. Completely up to yourself.

[Fearzup]

has anyone seen the latest update that now soul swap has a 15 sec cooldown up from 10 and all they did was buff mastery by 5% in what world is that a fair trade off ?

[Jessicka]

has anyone seen the latest update that now soul swap has a 15 sec cooldown up from 10 and all they did was buff mastery by 5% in what world is that a fair trade off ?

It's something thet were going to do in 406, but given the considerable amount of other nerfs they inflicted they weren't sure whether it was a nerf too far. Clearly they've now decided it wasn't. :\

[Marilina]

To me, affliction's strength's lie in its soulswap cleaving and its execute. Being able to keep shadow embrace up on two targets as affSB spec (ie. 3/3 bane) is a pretty big boost to its cleaving potential, and as such to me its the superior spec.

pretty much this, although affdrain does come ahead singletarget but its cleave is much worse
cleave fight, shadowbolt filler:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/0...=1723#Marilina
singletarget, drain life filler:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=8795#Marilina

[Fearzup]

yea but in what world are we gonna be a competing class atm you see warlocks high on the rating but also you need to look at their partners i mean in a 3s match i have 3 people dotted ccing as much as possible and at the end of the match my warrior is double my damage doing nothing but tunneling but if you look at the same comp uing a shadow priest the damage is fairly close if not for the shadow doing more damage?

---------- Post added 2011-03-28 at 09:29 AM ----------

but we are constiently compared to shadow priest damage and we are no where close

[Marilina]

but we are constiently compared to shadow priest damage and we are no where close

no where close, say what?

[Deleted]

read elitistjerks.com
i personally only play DL, because it provides more selfhealing and theoretically speaking more dps. since latency is an issue, many people argue that SB spam is a bit better. they are so close that i think you are doing your healers a huge favour by spamming DL! it's movementfriendly (huge issue in cataclysm!!!), you get to stack more mastery for your "execute phase" and again selfheal!!! also a nice thing is the spec, bc you get to lifetap less (mana feed!). being alive means dealing damage, never forget that! if you are playing the heroic content, you'll understand this =)
i highly recommend using DL
(and use the succubus until 4.1!)

[nilnar]

pretty much this, although affdrain does come ahead singletarget but its cleave is much worse
cleave fight, shadowbolt filler:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/0...=1723#Marilina
singletarget, drain life filler:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=8795#Marilina

I'm confused by your V&T log. How did you manage 52% uptime on volcanic destruction? Also, what caused the 75k spike? You apparently had no procs during it (no trinkets, no engulfing, no DS, not even a shadow trance proc...).

[gherkin]

This entirely depends on your gearset, your latency, and your ability/willingness to play a spec with more going on than absolutely necessary.

If you're not going to see BIS, you might end up with a lot more mastery than some people, making a drain spec more appetizing.

However, there are benefits to both.
Drain: Self healing is great and should be encouraged, but it has the drawback of a single pushback killing 33% of its DPM
SB: No self healing, but does equal dps (or more in pushback situations), but suffers a lot more if you lack hit rating.

The difference isn't just in the spell you use as filler either. Nightfall means more instant shadow bolts which IS a dps gain, but you need to be maximizing their use in order to win out.

---------- Post added 2011-03-28 at 07:23 PM ----------

I'm confused by your V&T log. How did you manage 52% uptime on volcanic destruction? Also, what caused the 75k spike? You apparently had no procs during it (no trinkets, no engulfing, no DS, not even a shadow trance proc...).

World of Logs isn't perfect. 7 x 12s duration = 84s, but it has recorded 226. This just means that the fade event was not caught at one point and it thinks that the buff is up the whole time.