Looking for Tank help

[Tamok]

Guild is stuck at 9/12 for 4 weeks running. I cant seem to get any constructive information from my healers as to i can do anything better

i cant post links, but if anyone has time to look me up and unload please do

ill race change, profession change, whatever it takes to help my guild.
i have thick skin so lay it on me, i can take it.

Tamok on runetotem (horde)
WoL- stormriders( should be some recent Chogal attempts )

[Darky23]

What is the main problem is the one thing that I want to know? Are you taking too much Dmg? I look at your gear and its pretty good, Spec is good too although for my DK i didn't go Lichborne spec so its a bit different but I just want to know the main problem your having so that I can answer if i can that is.

[Tamok]

What is the main problem is the one thing that I want to know? Are you taking too much Dmg? I look at your gear and its pretty good, Spec is good too although for my DK i didn't go Lichborne spec so its a bit different but I just want to know the main problem your having so that I can answer if i can that is.

there seem to be two reason we wipe on chogal. The first is adds, which i cant do anything about. the 2nd is our pally tank dying while i tank the big adds. What i cant tell is, if hes dying because the healers are spending to much time healing me or for some other reason. maybe the MC people aren't getting broken out fast enough causing him to stack up and blast the pally. but if that was the case wouldn't the same thing happen to me during the times i tank the boss?

i cant figure out if the issue is me , the other tank, the healers, or just a shit raid group. if its me id like to improve and play better.

[Darsithis]

My spec is nearly the same, although you might want to try for Swordshattering instead. With that, plus my on-use dodge trinket, and Dancing Rune Weapon (+20% Parry), I can usually get my avoidance over 60%.

Are you using DRW every time it's on cooldown when facing physical damage?

---------- Post added 2011-04-05 at 04:34 PM ----------

there seem to be two reason we wipe on chogal. The first is adds, which i cant do anything about. the 2nd is our pally tank dying while i tank the big adds. What i cant tell is, if hes dying because the healers are spending to much time healing me or for some other reason. maybe the MC people aren't getting broken out fast enough causing him to stack up and blast the pally. but if that was the case wouldn't the same thing happen to me during the times i tank the boss?

i cant figure out if the issue is me , the other tank, the healers, or just a shit raid group. if its me id like to improve and play better.

It can be a combination of all of those things. DK's are great self-healers, so you might be seeing the same incoming damage, but your rotation is healing a good portion of it when his isn't.

[Deleted]

Get a DPS to taunt the boss occasionaly just before he puts the debuff on the tank, this will make healing easy amd thus tanking.

[Badhorse]

I made this account just to respond to your post. I checked out your gear, and it's almost exactly the same as mine. I recently started doing heroics, and we are currently 3/13 and going through them with minimal attempts. I will say I was in a couple bad guilds before, that were about 9/12 as well. If you find that you are dying, and the other tank isn't, it may be just you not playing your class correctly. Are you using the correct cooldowns,deathstrikes at the right times etc. If you don't feel you are doing anything wrong yourself, all I can suggest is looking for a new guild. If you have any more specific questions about dk tanking in general, than I could get more of a grasp on the situation.

[SurrealNight]

I find that DPS get distracted from interrupting worship after the big adds spawn, thats usually what gets me killed when I come back to pick up the boss and get crushed.

Also make sure he is using a moderate CD during Flames Orders as tank damage jumps way up during that. AMS works great for us.

[Deleted]

It might also be that people is receiving to much blood corruption and starts to puke all over each other.


Go to youtube, search for "bisham priory cho'gall" and locate the video by Bigboonvids. you can not search for the username, the videos are removed from his account but can still be accessed if you just search for the specific video. That video shows a DK tanking Cho'gall 25man normal.

Good luck!

[SeventhSealed]

The first is adds, which i cant do anything about. the 2nd is our pally tank dying while i tank the big adds. What i cant tell is, if hes dying because the healers are spending to much time healing me or for some other reason. maybe the MC people aren't getting broken out fast enough causing him to stack up and blast the pally. but if that was the case wouldn't the same thing happen to me during the times i tank the boss?

Adds? Are you referring to the Adherents or the Bloods? You're right in that there's very little you can do about the Bloods (although dropping a D&D if you have the free runes may help), but the Adherents being positioned/dragged/interrupted can all be greatly helped by competent play on the tank's part.

As for MCed people not being broken fast enough, if your guild is a little undergeared for the encounter and doesn't have the strongest of healers it can be very taxing for him to get 2+ stacks of the buff. Especially during a Flame's Orders. If this is the case, and the reason that your pally is dieing, you should be telling him to save his cooldowns for situations where stacks may get high, and coordinating with your guild to ensure that this never happens.

As for race changing/spec changing, don't worry about it. Just be sure to use abilities and your racial to assist in breaking the MCs (if that's the issue).

[lolwuthaha]

It might also be that people is receiving to much blood corruption and starts to puke all over each other.

If it isn't something obvious like the above poster mentioned, then it most likely is due to people being MC'ed. Those stacks will WTFpwn you or ur co tank if they aren't removed asap. Make sure you have competent people on interrupts, they make a world of difference in this fight, more than anything else that's not obvious. If you're getting to phase three, also make sure u guys are interrupting those purple beams from teh tentacles. Those will wipe u quickly too.

I have a DK and I usually tank the boss while my pally co tank drags the adds to the back. The timing gets a slight bit off toward the end, but as long as you wait till the last second to taunt so you dont get blasted with Fury you can tank the boss everytime while he grabs the adds.
The reasoning behind doing it this way is that a pally has more passive mitigation than you. You're best suited to tank the boss, while he's best suited to get slapped around while dragging, resulting in easier time healing for your healers.

[yurano]

On Chogall during the add phase the healers are split between front and back (boss and adds). This results in less healers to OMG spike the tank up from hard hits. Couple this effect with fire phase during the add phase and expect the boss tank to drop. The correct solution is for the raid leader or the boss tank to call out fire phase and ask for fat heals from his healers. This way the boss tank healers know that they should be ready to emergency heal during a time where there is less room for error.

[Deleted]

there seem to be two reason we wipe on chogal. The first is adds, which i cant do anything about. the 2nd is our pally tank dying while i tank the big adds. What i cant tell is, if hes dying because the healers are spending to much time healing me or for some other reason. maybe the MC people aren't getting broken out fast enough causing him to stack up and blast the pally. but if that was the case wouldn't the same thing happen to me during the times i tank the boss?

i cant figure out if the issue is me , the other tank, the healers, or just a shit raid group. if its me id like to improve and play better.

There are a few things that can cause whoever is tanking cho'gall to die:
Cho'gall is tanked too close to the throne when the healers move on the add spawn and can't reach the tank.
The tank taunts too early after the large add is downed and ends up with a double stack of Fury of Cho'gall and takes a lot more damage
Devotion is not broken(soon enough) buffing Cho'gall

[SurrealNight]

On Chogall during the add phase the healers are split between front and back (boss and adds). This results in less healers to OMG spike the tank up from hard hits. Couple this effect with fire phase during the add phase and expect the boss tank to drop. The correct solution is for the raid leader or the boss tank to call out fire phase and ask for fat heals from his healers. This way the boss tank healers know that they should be ready to emergency heal during a time where there is less room for error.

The second tank can just move towards where you are killing the adherent so the entire raid is within range of each other at all times. Splitting up just makes things even harder to heal or interrupt worships. After the add is dead you can then move back to the original position farther away from the add pools and taunt while the rest of the raid stack back up in their original position.

[yurano]

The second tank can just move towards where you are killing the adherent so the entire raid is within range of each other at all times. Splitting up just makes things even harder to heal or interrupt worships. After the add is dead you can then move back to the original position farther away from the add pools and taunt while the rest of the raid stack back up in their original position.

This depends on how your raid is set up. In my guild, this has always been how its done (for whatever reason). One competent tank healer is enough to keep up the boss tank during fire phase in 10 mans. In 25 mans, more healers means more room for error.

The main take home message is that healers need to know when massive tank damage is coming in during fire phase when they're distracted by healing add damage.

[Tamok]

This depends on how your raid is set up. In my guild, this has always been how its done (for whatever reason).

The main take home message is that healers need to know when massive tank damage is coming in during fire phase when they're distracted by healing add damage.

Thanks for all the reply's, some very good info in there for me. We are trying to 2 heal this with a druid and shaman, im starting to think that is part of the issue as well as what Yurano stated, about healers being distracted during the add phase and the fire proc doing in the pally.

thanks again, will be looking into a few of the things mentioned above

[Darky23]

When I did Cho'gall and downed him in my 10 man group, there were alot of factors to take in. Im a pally Tank but I can see where you are going with this. If your offtank is dying, then its mostly either due to MC people not broken out, or the off tank isnt popping a CD to adjust the initial 10secs of increased damage. I found that popping a few CD's helped during the Fury taunts. The adds you need your range to deal with teh first 2 waves and then have all your dps focus purely on them with slows, freezes whatever to kill them far away. When my group did this, we 2 healed it w/ a druid and pally, had 2 mages and a lock, a warrior and a shaman, and 2 pally tanks. We're all horde so we got some good racials being that at least 4 of use were blood elf so we alternate Arcane Torrent and I occasionally use my avenger's shield to silence the Worship. Also as what yurano said your raid group is the main part in this fight, you need some good range w/ lots of slows. as that the adds move fast. Also, I'd call out what each tank is doing to notify healers whats happening so that they could be ready and also interrupt as much as possible for worship since ive seen Cho'gall at 5 stacks and well he hits hella hard. Use CD's wisely, if your offtank is a paladin, i would suggest using the Divine protection glyph to decrease magic dmg by 40% since it helps. Also tank him in the middle initiialy when there is no adds and then have that tank strafe around that circle to avoid the aoe. After that, when the add is dead and he does fester blood, try to drag him a bit back towards the throne so that dps can have some distance between the boss and the incoming slime adds. Hope this helps.

[Build]

there seem to be two reason we wipe on chogal. The first is adds, which i cant do anything about. the 2nd is our pally tank dying while i tank the big adds. What i cant tell is, if hes dying because the healers are spending to much time healing me or for some other reason. maybe the MC people aren't getting broken out fast enough causing him to stack up and blast the pally. but if that was the case wouldn't the same thing happen to me during the times i tank the boss?

i cant figure out if the issue is me , the other tank, the healers, or just a shit raid group. if its me id like to improve and play better.

Well, during the add phase stacks are more likely to stack than the "non-add" phase. Mostly due to the fact people are spread out more and there's more going on so people stay in it. Cho'gall also absorbs one of the elemental guys he spawns during that phase, I think it adds elemental damage to his weapon, I'm unsure though. I do know he does more damage with that. It's not a great deal more but it could be a contributing factor.

The tank could also be standing in the fire or the swirly black stuff while you tanking the add. It doesn't sound like it's you.

[Deleted]

Well i checked one of your logs, dmg overall seems quite low, especially the 2 balance druids and the hunter just seem very low.

Which could lead to people taking more dmg due to add dying slowly, and then the MC's not getting dealt with and tank getting insta gibbed due to the +50% dmg debuff (assuming they slack that bad)

Additionally your raid members need to learn to start dodging Corrupting crashes, every single attempt they take at least 1 or even 2 of these hits, this will screw you over in the last phase so badly, as shadow dmg will tick for more and more depending on your corrupting level

[Téuntjûh]

The problem is your pally tank if he's the one dying.
Does he pop cd's if the MC'interupting fails (chogall gets stacks)?
Does he use his Avenger Shield to help interupting? (Can interupt 3 mc'd players in a second, all around the room)
Does he move out of fire/shadow damage?

[Zao]

linky1: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...tamok/advanced

linky2: http://worldoflogs.com/guilds/96061/

I've checked a f ew deaths from your pally and each of them kinda looks the same. He does not receive a direct heal for several seconds and then dies. The damage he takes looks relatively normal in fact it's a bit low, which indicates that he knows something bad is about to happen an uses his cds accordingly.

My suggestion to you would also be to try the boss with 3 healers. as long as you get a maximum of three blood spawns you should be fine.