Balance vs. Feral for Druid Raid DPS.

[Avenn]

It honestly depends on what you have more experience with. If you have played boomkin before in wrath I would say stick with that. While feral is nowhere near as hard as it was in LK, its my opinion that it would be easier for you to do more dps as boomkin due to multidotting etc. However, with that said, I myself have been feral since forever and know for a fact I do more dmg as feral than I could probly ever do as boom :P Like others have said, it depends on your play style.

[Ealyssa]

Balance has better dps, just watch parses
Balance has better tools, innervate, tranquility, bump (which is underated, it can be very usefull)

But feral has an awesome cat skin, when balance play an old fat chicken.

[Jinto]

Depends on the fight.

Lets see...

Magmaw: Balance, multi-dot ftw!
Omnotron: Balance, multi-dot ftw!
Maloriak: Balance, multi-dot + aoe ftw!
Atramedes: Balance, have fun dpsing stuff in the air.
Chimaeron: Finally a fair fight...just got to dps from behind!
Neferian: Whoever RNG favors wins anyway.
Halfus: Balance, multi-dot ftw!
V+T: Balance, multi-dot ftw!
Council: Balance, multi-dot ftw!
Cho'gall: Balance, multi-dot + mushrooms + amazing utility ftw!
Sinestra: Balance, multi-dot ftw! Haste is better for balance anyway.
Conclave: No multi-dot but its kinda hard to be behind Rohash :S Refreshing dots prior to platform switching ftw!
Al'Akir: Feral. Better beat the other melee to the choice spots but being a caster blows anyway on this.

[Ragekitty]

Lets see...

Magmaw: Balance, multi-dot ftw!
Omnotron: Balance, multi-dot ftw!
Maloriak: Balance, multi-dot + aoe ftw!
Atramedes: Balance, have fun dpsing stuff in the air.
Chimaeron: Finally a fair fight...just got to dps from behind!
Neferian: Whoever RNG favors wins anyway.
Halfus: Balance, multi-dot ftw!
V+T: Balance, multi-dot ftw!
Council: Balance, multi-dot ftw!
Cho'gall: Balance, multi-dot + mushrooms + amazing utility ftw!
Sinestra: Balance, multi-dot ftw! Haste is better for balance anyway.
Conclave: No multi-dot but its kinda hard to be behind Rohash :S Refreshing dots prior to platform switching ftw!
Al'Akir: Feral. Better beat the other melee to the choice spots but being a caster blows anyway on this.

That's a little extreme.
Magmaw: The skeletons should be in melee for cleaves anyway; it's not a stretch for a feral to apply dots to Magmaw and to the skeleton.
Omnotron: You're only DPSing one bot at a time. Besides that, feral charge is broken for getting out of Grip of Death. Not to mention Swipe on the poison protocol slimes.
Maloriak: Yes, boomkin rapes ferals on this fight. I'll give you that.
Atramedes: I'll take my increased survivability + dash(es) over being able to hit him a few times in the air any day.
Chimaeron: Terrible fight for everyone. If you get debuff, you suck. If you don't, you still suck because of Feud.
Nefarian: Don't know about this on heroic.
Halfus: Decent ferals will have multiple bleeds rolling on multiple targets; it's challenging but doable.
V + T: I don't see how boomkin beats feral here. All I've gotta do is stand behind the boss and do work; boomkins gotta move in and out for Engulfing Magic/Meteor.
Council: Don't know about heroic, but I can see boomkin edging feral here too. Too much movement.
Cho'Gall: Don't know about heroic; boomkin edges feral only for the adds that are kited to the back.
No clue about Sinestra.
Conclave: Standing behind Rohash is really easy actually. Tornado dodging is fun.
Al'Akir: This fight sucks. Period.

[rathofvol]

The notion that feral is in anyway a difficult rotation anymore is completely fallacious. To be honest, balance might be more difficult, or at least more involved.

List of things they have done to make feral rotation a joke:
Mangle duration increased from 12 seconds to 1 minute
Rake, Rip AND Savage Roar duration increased
Ferocious Bite refreshing Rip during the Execute phase (Sub 25%)
Shred being more efficient than Ferocious Bite, effectively cutting FB out of the rotation until Execute Phase

These changes have made feral no more difficult to play than any other of the brainless 2 button classes.

And on top of that, its DPS is terrible. Balance blows it out of the water even in pure single target fights.

[Jinto]

That's a little extreme.
Magmaw: The skeletons should be in melee for cleaves anyway; it's not a stretch for a feral to apply dots to Magmaw and to the skeleton.
Omnotron: You're only DPSing one bot at a time. Besides that, feral charge is broken for getting out of Grip of Death. Not to mention Swipe on the poison protocol slimes.
Maloriak: Yes, boomkin rapes ferals on this fight. I'll give you that.
Atramedes: I'll take my increased survivability + dash(es) over being able to hit him a few times in the air any day.
Chimaeron: Terrible fight for everyone. If you get debuff, you suck. If you don't, you still suck because of Feud.
Nefarian: Don't know about this on heroic.
Halfus: Decent ferals will have multiple bleeds rolling on multiple targets; it's challenging but doable.
V + T: I don't see how boomkin beats feral here. All I've gotta do is stand behind the boss and do work; boomkins gotta move in and out for Engulfing Magic/Meteor.
Council: Don't know about heroic, but I can see boomkin edging feral here too. Too much movement.
Cho'Gall: Don't know about heroic; boomkin edges feral only for the adds that are kited to the back.
No clue about Sinestra.
Conclave: Standing behind Rohash is really easy actually. Tornado dodging is fun.
Al'Akir: This fight sucks. Period.

Honestly I don't really feel like arguing the finer points with you. No offence but I don't think you have the raid experience to justify some of the things you are saying as anyone who has cleared all current content will disagree. I personally like feral druids more myself and I am friends with some of the best feral druids in U.S. guilds. But reality is reality. In current content boomkins (or any dot classes) are FOTM.

[Darsey]

If you do 10 mens feral by far, as it close so many gaps in fights where you could use 3 tanks for a while.

[Garouken]

That's a little extreme.
Magmaw: The skeletons should be in melee for cleaves anyway; it's not a stretch for a feral to apply dots to Magmaw and to the skeleton.
Omnotron: You're only DPSing one bot at a time. Besides that, feral charge is broken for getting out of Grip of Death. Not to mention Swipe on the poison protocol slimes.
Maloriak: Yes, boomkin rapes ferals on this fight. I'll give you that.
Atramedes: I'll take my increased survivability + dash(es) over being able to hit him a few times in the air any day.
Chimaeron: Terrible fight for everyone. If you get debuff, you suck. If you don't, you still suck because of Feud.
Nefarian: Don't know about this on heroic.
Halfus: Decent ferals will have multiple bleeds rolling on multiple targets; it's challenging but doable.
V + T: I don't see how boomkin beats feral here. All I've gotta do is stand behind the boss and do work; boomkins gotta move in and out for Engulfing Magic/Meteor.
Council: Don't know about heroic, but I can see boomkin edging feral here too. Too much movement.
Cho'Gall: Don't know about heroic; boomkin edges feral only for the adds that are kited to the back.
No clue about Sinestra.
Conclave: Standing behind Rohash is really easy actually. Tornado dodging is fun.
Al'Akir: This fight sucks. Period.

No sorry.

Magmaw - Starfall on worms to help kiter clean them up.
Omnotron - *Ferals DPS one bot at a time.* All the dot classes multidot as dots dont proc shield cept for the fire one which is damage based.
Atramedes - Because boomkin druids can't shift into cat and dash lol. You hit him fulltime in airphase, just make sure you are in sunfire eclipse and spam all day while moving.
Chim - Have fun shreding from the front on feud + tranq from boomkin to top the raid off is amazing.
Halfus - Mushroom + Starfall > 2-3 bleeds.
V + T - You can dot the dragon thats in the air the whole time, it is always in range of spells. So you multidot and beat a feral thats hitting 1 target. Moving doesn't decrease moonkin dps almost at all btw. Our moonkins can pull 20-22k dps using only sunfirelol. On heroic if you don't have a rogue for twilight realm a boomkin is 10x better to send in.

[Strix]

I can't think of a single fight this current tier that favors feral over a boomkin. We haven't run with one since we first got into hardmodes and haven't missed a thing.

[Ragekitty]

Look, I didn't mean to start a FERAL VS BOOMKIN war here. Jinto made it seem like Boomkin trumps Feral EVERY SINGLE TIME, which isn't really the case. Yes, this expansion hates melee classes so far. Yes, Boomkin is pretty FotM right now. Yes, Feral DPS -- even if played by an extremely talented raider -- still falls behind Boomkin DPS played by an equally talented raider. But players are different and bads will be bads, even if they're playing a FotM class. It sucks that Feral is so far behind other DPS now. I blame the filthy PvPers and their QQing about our bleeds.


The OP wanted to know which DPS is better for current raid. It's pretty obvious that Boomkin is UNLESS his raid already has a Boomkin; in which case, he could play around with Feral. Personally, I like the feeling of being right in the throes of battle and seeing my little kitty hack and slash with her claws. If it's not a raid necessity, then it boils down to personal flavor.

[Bourgeois]

Honestly I don't really feel like arguing the finer points with you. No offence but I don't think you have the raid experience to justify some of the things you are saying as anyone who has cleared all current content will disagree. I personally like feral druids more myself and I am friends with some of the best feral druids in U.S. guilds. But reality is reality. In current content boomkins (or any dot classes) are FOTM.

No, I'M SORRY, but your haughtiness and appeals to expertise only highlight that you're either right or taking your ball home and not playing. You act as though Atramedes, for example, is good for balance, but it's a superior melee fight. Lunar shower is nice and all, but there are few times when balance can motor through eclipses given sonar rings, etc. The same goes with fights like V and T and Council. Sure balance can multidot and take a few targets on, but it's actually about the extent of what balance can do for most of the fight. It's not to say that they shouldn't beat feral there, but simply that it is closer and, I'd argue, way more fun to not have to spam instants on your way to somewhat flaccid dominance.

TL;DR Even elitist hufflepuffs get stuff wrong because they're own experience is so limited and bound by their blind following of their RLs that they don't have any actual evidence or fact. Have fun hanging out with all the cool cats. Lol.

[Heringer91]

boomkin 4set pushes single target ahead of feral, aoe is always boomkin

[Jinto]

No, I'M SORRY, but your haughtiness and appeals to expertise only highlight that you're either right or taking your ball home and not playing. You act as though Atramedes, for example, is good for balance, but it's a superior melee fight. Lunar shower is nice and all, but there are few times when balance can motor through eclipses given sonar rings, etc. The same goes with fights like V and T and Council. Sure balance can multidot and take a few targets on, but it's actually about the extent of what balance can do for most of the fight. It's not to say that they shouldn't beat feral there, but simply that it is closer and, I'd argue, way more fun to not have to spam instants on your way to somewhat flaccid dominance.

TL;DR Even elitist hufflepuffs get stuff wrong because they're own experience is so limited and bound by their blind following of their RLs that they don't have any actual evidence or fact. Have fun hanging out with all the cool cats. Lol.

Errr what?

[Garouken]

No, I'M SORRY, but your haughtiness and appeals to expertise only highlight that you're either right or taking your ball home and not playing. You act as though Atramedes, for example, is good for balance, but it's a superior melee fight. Lunar shower is nice and all, but there are few times when balance can motor through eclipses given sonar rings, etc. The same goes with fights like V and T and Council. Sure balance can multidot and take a few targets on, but it's actually about the extent of what balance can do for most of the fight. It's not to say that they shouldn't beat feral there, but simply that it is closer and, I'd argue, way more fun to not have to spam instants on your way to somewhat flaccid dominance.

TL;DR Even elitist hufflepuffs get stuff wrong because they're own experience is so limited and bound by their blind following of their RLs that they don't have any actual evidence or fact. Have fun hanging out with all the cool cats. Lol.

The original question was which DPS is better, which in EVERY case on EVERY fight, moonkin is better due to better dps AND better utility cds. If you find cat dps more fun to play go ahead nobody is stopping you. However if you are min/maxing dps and utility moonkin is hands down better.

Also on Atramedes our moonkins get into Solar Eclipse and just NEVER leave it for the entire fight and only spam sunfire and they are our top dps. While you say its not "fun" for you to spam instants, thats essentially what cat druids do unless I am missing some magical cast time shreds that they do.

[Angarin]

On my druid I was boomkin for a bit while intending to be feral tank when I hit max. I did it for a bit but we started seeing a decline in tanks so I went feral bear.

To be honest these guys are right

1) Play what you enjoy, if you dont enjoy it chances are your just wasting your time
2) The current content favors ranged for many reasons over melee, hopefully this will change in t12

Take #1 prio over 2 but if you really love them all then take #2 into consideration

I find that cat is extremely easy to play while boomkin is also. They're both just about managing dots while boomie adds an additional feature the balance bar I think its called or something. If you can master keeping dots up while putting out as much casts as you can your golden. If you can also get down spamming moonfire on heavy movement fights you'll destroy melee dps & other casters who dont have that ability. If your up with an equal geared+skill fire mage your gonna lose though unless RNG is your best friend and not theirs

[Lilija]

If there are any at all melee friendly fights its the minority, also moonkin's easier to play and has better dps output. Also has great aoe when needed.
Feral cat is one of the harder dps specs in game, it's dps is not really rewarding for the difficulty level, it has the same downsides as all melee dps, can only attack from the back (which IS a problem sometimes, especially with less hardcore guilds and their tanks)

Yeah, try all the multidotting (it's where all the pro moonkin dps comes ... not from single target for sure) and keeping up with the timings in T11 ... really "brainless". Moonkin actually got much more complicated than it was before...

PS. http://stateofdps.com/index.php?data...s=200&spec=dps

So yeah, its one of the lowest dps specs atm while still being one of the hardest, not worth it totally.

Don't get too hyped about balance on the meters because next patch DI nerf comes (and it's the main reason for the 3 top specs on that chart to be there). Also, balance itself is getting some significant nerfs so I'm expecting to see it more in the middle.

Nerf and buffs come and go and there is no reason to chose a spec to play basing on FoTM. If someone likes the spec he will top the meteres in his guild.