Should our warlock's DPS be higher?

[DenniZ]

You're the raidgroup leader but couldn't figure out he is not hitcapped?

[Calabera]

I am sorry to say, and I apologize if I come out wrong; your warlock is bad and has no understanding of how to manage cooldowns.

If I were raid leader I would most likely replace him, at least until he can perform better. Here are the reasons why, he is performing at a level that is way below the rest of your raid. His gear is enough for him to be top 5 on most of those fights, although his optimization in gear is bad.

His DoT uptime is the biggest problem he has, they should be at least over 90%. If he manages to keep his DoT up to at least 90% you will see him do a hell of a lot better. He is not using CDs on time, his Chaos Bolt, Conflag, Shadow Flame are way low. He should probably get a DoT timer and a CD timer. Quartz is great, Power Aura Classics is also. Some fights he did not use Soulburn at all! He should be using it every time is up, the only time he should save it is when you guys are close to execution/ lust(heroism/time warp) time to be used in conjuction with heroism.

Bottom line, he/she needs to play it better.

[Savedwow]

To put into perspective, my pet did 14k on my last Halfus. Your warlock is terrible.

[Delia]

To put into perspective, my pet did 14k on my last Halfus. Your warlock is terrible.

BOOOOOOONESTOOOORM... er... felstorm

[NickV]

You're the raidgroup leader but couldn't figure out he is not hitcapped?

Being hitcapped isn't mandatory. Highly desirable yes, but having less then 17% shouldn't automatically DQ you from raids. The Warlock referenced in the first post needs much more help though.

[leorana]

I am sorry to say, and I apologize if I come out wrong; your warlock is bad and has no understanding of how to manage cooldowns.

If I were raid leader I would most likely replace him, at least until he can perform better. Here are the reasons why, he is performing at a level that is way below the rest of your raid. His gear is enough for him to be top 5 on most of those fights, although his optimization in gear is bad.

His DoT uptime is the biggest problem he has, they should be at least over 90%. If he manages to keep his DoT up to at least 90% you will see him do a hell of a lot better. He is not using CDs on time, his Chaos Bolt, Conflag, Shadow Flame are way low. He should probably get a DoT timer and a CD timer. Quartz is great, Power Aura Classics is also. Some fights he did not use Soulburn at all! He should be using it every time is up, the only time he should save it is when you guys are close to execution/ lust(heroism/time warp) time to be used in conjuction with heroism.

Bottom line, he/she needs to play it better.

a little bit off-topic but this thread was pretty hard for me to read...

I know that lock is destro as the OP mentioned and the first time this DPS was mentioned (about 20K) I was like " I don't get it..he's doing over 20K, where's the problem?"

then I kept reading and everyone mentioned he's not hitcapped, bad enchants and reforgin,doesn't keep his DoTs on target etc..which I agree is wrong .

however , my DEMO lock is ilvl 353 . a thread from hit cap , using all the right enchants,gems,reforge..I keep my DoTS (CoE,BoD,immo and Corr) close to 100% uptime -

and still doing less than 14K on argalol !!!

so either I'm doing terribly wrong (in that case I could use some advices to get better) or Destro is so much better DPS than demo on single target...

this is my armory : http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...sephoni/simple

and my rotation goes like : (Succy out) CoE,BoD,immo,HoG,Corr,spam SB,refresh HoG on CD and 3Xinicin when MC procs. also, dropping Corr at decimation and replacing SB spams with SF - which I have soulburned)

also, using meta,demonsoul and infernal on CD .

what am I doing wrong ?

[Delia]

a little bit off-topic but this thread was pretty hard for me to read...

I know that lock is destro as the OP mentioned and the first time this DPS was mentioned (about 20K) I was like " I don't get it..he's doing over 20K, where's the problem?"

then I kept reading and everyone mentioned he's not hitcapped, bad enchants and reforgin,doesn't keep his DoTs on target etc..which I agree is wrong .

however , my DEMO lock is ilvl 353 . a thread from hit cap , using all the right enchants,gems,reforge..I keep my DoTS (CoE,BoD,immo and Corr) close to 100% uptime -

and still doing less than 14K on argalol !!!

so either I'm doing terribly wrong (in that case I could use some advices to get better) or Destro is so much better DPS than demo on single target...

this is my armory : http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...sephoni/simple

and my rotation goes like : (Succy out) CoE,BoD,immo,HoG,Corr,spam SB,refresh HoG on CD and 3Xinicin when MC procs. also, dropping Corr at decimation and replacing SB spams with SF - which I have soulburned)

also, using meta,demonsoul and infernal on CD .

what am I doing wrong ?

Your comparing BH to Halfus... that's what you're doing wrong... Halfus takes 25% more damage for each drake you kill, and you kill 2-3 of them in reg... plus you AoE a lot, or multi-dot to boost damage... completely incomparable fights

That said, you should be able to be doing more than 14k with your gear as demo, its not hugely lower than destro (its lower... just not that much lower)

Take points our of imp corruption, move to 3/3 Bane, and 2/2 Emberstorm

[leorana]

thank you . I will try that

[Calabera]

@leorana - without looking at WoL data and just looking at your stated rotation (single target) I would recommend the following: (In addition to what Delia mentioned)

[CoE - If not provided equivalent in raid comp) BoD, Corr, HoG, Immo (burnt SF1) (SB if no MC proc) - HoG (filler if Corr > 10 sec remaining if not refresh it) refresh BoD as needed.
The reason why I would recommend HoG before Immo at the start is it's damage and the CD it has. It does a lot of damage, hits like a truck, and it will be up again before your Immo runs out. After that make sure you use it on every CD, if you do this right your corruption will not be falling when you are casting, so your Corr uptime will also improve by not being caught on mid cast.

Other things you did not mention, are you using Shadow Flame on CD? Fel Flame on the move? Are you pre-potting and potting on lust?

[Joodoc]

Also make sure that on multi-target fights that he is multi-dotting. On fights like V&T, Omnitron, Elemental Council, Nefarian (P1 and P2), and Halfus it makes a significant difference. Casting Immolate and corruption on a second target increases DPS by like 8-12%, especially helpful on shared life bosses.

But I guess trying to have him get his SINGLE dot'ing down first might be the best course of action, Immo, and Corruption should have at the very least an 80% uptime, 90%+ being better. Also ISF should be like 75%+ uptime.

Edit:
Destro is the highest warlock DPS spec... if you can actually play it, it uses something like 10 buttons in its regular rotation (9 if you don't count BoD since it has a long duration). If he has trouble playing destro, maybe he should consider Demonology instead, its damage is theoretically lower, but its rotation is only like 4 buttons and one of the DoTs becomes self maintaining... and certain fights you get to spend 40% of the encounter running in circles mashing hellfire...

What demo spec are you talking about? destro is harder now than when I last used it, but demo is by no means a cake walk

---------- Post added 2011-04-14 at 09:22 AM ----------

a little bit off-topic but this thread was pretty hard for me to read...

I know that lock is destro as the OP mentioned and the first time this DPS was mentioned (about 20K) I was like " I don't get it..he's doing over 20K, where's the problem?"

then I kept reading and everyone mentioned he's not hitcapped, bad enchants and reforgin,doesn't keep his DoTs on target etc..which I agree is wrong .

however , my DEMO lock is ilvl 353 . a thread from hit cap , using all the right enchants,gems,reforge..I keep my DoTS (CoE,BoD,immo and Corr) close to 100% uptime -

and still doing less than 14K on argalol !!!

so either I'm doing terribly wrong (in that case I could use some advices to get better) or Destro is so much better DPS than demo on single target...

this is my armory : http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...sephoni/simple

and my rotation goes like : (Succy out) CoE,BoD,immo,HoG,Corr,spam SB,refresh HoG on CD and 3Xinicin when MC procs. also, dropping Corr at decimation and replacing SB spams with SF - which I have soulburned)

also, using meta,demonsoul and infernal on CD .

what am I doing wrong ?

First off, go optimize yourself from http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/u...rsephoni#v1-z1

then go check out http://elitistjerks.com/f80/t110366-...4_0_6_updated/

I would give you personal advice but my account is out of subscription atm and I don't want to miss something, though your rotation seems a little lacking, though I recommend a priority list more than a rotation, as calabera said, HoG is better before immo, it hits harder, starts the debuff for your demon, and will be up before immo falls off.

Another big thing, are you using meta and demon soul at the same time? with the talent to lower the CD of meta, they should come off CD generally close together, and it is a much greater dps increase together than seperate

Also, are you remembering DI? even if you have nobody that really uses dots or hots, it is still haste a haste buff. While I use felguard rather than succy, and I have a lower Ilvl, I do higher than that on algaloth. Be sure you are using demonic circle so you are back on him immediatly after fire storm

[Anyasha]

First, have your Warlock come read this thread, so that he doesn't get defensive that it's just you expecting too much. You have a number of other Warlocks who will advocate that his performance is bad.

Second, make him stand in front of a target dummy and learn his rotation. He should be pushing 15k single target, totally unbuffed (yes, even without DI stacks), and 20k if he Banes and Immolates another target. He should learn how to do BOTH. There are many fights (Magmaw, Omnitron, V&T, Nef, Halfus, Cho'gall, and Ele Council) where he can bane and immo at least one other target. However, considering he is so bad at single target, I would at least make sure he learns that.

Destro is a 'more difficult' rotation for someone who doesn't excell at timing and monitoring buffs/cooldowns, which is clearly the case with your Warlock. However, a good Warlock is an incredible asset to a raid group.

On literally every single fight except Chimaeron, your Warlock should be #1 or very, very close to it. Bane of Havoc, SoulSwap, multi-dotting, ShadowFlame, and being able to dps very effectively on the move give Warlocks a huge advantage over almost every other class/spec on almost every encounter. You are seriously selling your guild short if you allow this individual to continue dragging you down. You cuold get another rDPS who would do 150% of the DPS he is doing, or you could get a good Warlock who would do 200% of the DPS he is doing.

Some benchmarks from my own performance (This is 25m, so discount maybe 15% to get a 10m value). It is unlikely he will suddenly jump up to these numbers, but it is intended to show the enormous disparity between his performance and good performance (and I am in no way the 'best' Warlock. I rank often, but am not like a top10 on every fight or anything unobtainable for the average person).

hMagmaw: 50k
hODS: 29k
hMaloriak: 30k
hAtramedes: 22k
hChim: 20k
Nef: 23k

hHalfus: 72k
hV&T: 24k (Affliction here...and is much higher if you get engulfing)
Ele Council: 25k
Cho'Gall: 24-26k

To4W: no idea...we don't tend to bother with the loot roulette bosses there.

TLDR: Make him learn how to get 100% DoT uptime, then to prioritize spells properly (Conflag>SFlame>ChaosBolt>Incin), then how to keep iSF to 90+%, then he can find the nuance ways to achieve ridiculous DPS numbers by properly utilizing BoHavoc, SFlame, and SSwap.
If he continues to perform poorly or cannot get the hang of these points, remove him. If he acts like an indignant elitist and thinks you have unrealistic expectations, kick him. Find a better Warlock (which might be the best advice anyway).

[Delia]

What demo spec are you talking about? destro is harder now than when I last used it, but demo is by no means a cake walk

Excluding CDs, Demo is like (in no particular order): Immolate (self sustaining), Corruption, Shadow Flame, BoD (long duration ez to maintain), HoG, Sbolt, Incin on Procs (soul fire during execute, but then you cut out some of the other stuff), and rarely shadow prot... AE fights you have to press Felstorm and Hellfire in addition.

So, 5 Buttons you'll be pressing on a semi-regular basis (Corruption, Shadow Flame, Sbolt, Incin, HoG).

Excluding CDs Destro is: Immolate, Incinerate, Chaos Bolt, Corruption, BoD (Long duration), Soul Fire, Conflag, Shadow Flame, BoH (very long duration)... and occasionally Shadowburn, Shadowfury, and Nether prot fairly frequently (read as "constantly" for certain fights)... AE fights you have to press RoF in addition.

So 7 (Immo, Incin, Chaos, Corrupt, SF, Conflag, Shadow Flame), guess they are close-ish, I think what makes Demo feel so much easier, is that the rotation feels so much more fixed, where as Destro if you want optimum DPS you are constantly watching the timers on everything... (I also frinkin' hate hard casting SF, f*** that spell to the depths of hell... can't wait til they fix Afflic in 4.1 and I can go back to my favorite spec...)

[GloryDruid]

You're the raidgroup leader but couldn't figure out he is not hitcapped?

I did notice that, but as I don't play a warlock anymore I didn't know if being hit capped was a 100% priority or not, I know that for some classes hit rating is NOT a top priority (feral druid anyone?) hence why I came here for advice.

First up thanks to everyone for the advice, for the most part it was constructive and very helpful.

I spent some time talking to the warlock last night, and pointed him toward a video guide I had found. Got him sorted out with a DOT and Cooldown timer (can't believe he wasn't using one already!) and he focused on getting his DOT uptime higher (still has a ways to go, but there was a massive improvement in our raid last night).

The most important fact though is that he has realized that there are problems with his rotation and he is willing to work on it

Thanks again for all of the advice, I can't wait to see the numbers he will be pushing out once he gets more comfortable with a proper rotation and maintaining his DOT's properly etc...

[Wings]

I did notice that, but as I don't play a warlock anymore I didn't know if being hit capped was a 100% priority or not, I know that for some classes hit rating is NOT a top priority (feral druid anyone?) hence why I came here for advice.

First up thanks to everyone for the advice, for the most part it was constructive and very helpful.

I spent some time talking to the warlock last night, and pointed him toward a video guide I had found. Got him sorted out with a DOT and Cooldown timer (can't believe he wasn't using one already!) and he focused on getting his DOT uptime higher (still has a ways to go, but there was a massive improvement in our raid last night).

The most important fact though is that he has realized that there are problems with his rotation and he is willing to work on it

Thanks again for all of the advice, I can't wait to see the numbers he will be pushing out once he gets more comfortable with a proper rotation and maintaining his DOT's properly etc...

I'm pleased to see you working with your warlock. With practice and desire I can see your warlock preforming well with the gear they have (once they fix thier itemization). Most raid guilds I've seen wouldn't have given them the patience. Getting a maximized destro rotation while paying attention to the fight will take some practice.
Also the time and effort your putting into helping the warlock is very impressive. Doing research on behalf of your needy guildy and helping them get better.

Kudos GloryDruid.

[Seezer]

Ask your warlock how he/she is tracking their dots. I'm willing to say they aren't using an addon, but just looking at the icons under the boss. Their dot uptime is very low. Also, she is missing +40 intellect from her off hand. Every bit helps. And incineratus is her bis outside of hard modes. She should have power torrent on it by now. Especially since she has a gathering prof she can make money from. She's an inscriptionist as well. Why hasn't she got her DMC:V yet? That's the BiS trinket for every caster. Even beating all 372 trinkets.

but her things to do list should be:

-If she doesn't already, get a proper dot tracking addon. Ellipsis is great.
-Get DMC:V
-Get Power Torrent
-Enchant her off hand
-Go to training dummies and practice her dot uptime

[Deleted]

I guess same things came up few times before already but I'll just tell you again for the effect!

Firstly the immolate and corruption uptimes are horrible imo. Preferably you should focus on keeping them up on 2 targets at the same time
on fights like Valiona and Theralion for example
Secondly is the bane of havoc. If there is 2 targets on the fight, there is no reason to not maximize your dps by casting BoH on secondary target.
Third thing would be refoges and enchants.
And finally. It seems like your warlocks are completely ingnoring Shadowflame. Sure it is an AoE spell but even on single target fights
the DPCT (Damage per cast time) Is higher than chaos bolts so it should be used as often as possible for max dps.

You should also ask if your locks are using anything to keep track on dot timers. 50% uptime is kind of pain to even watch =(

[figgis]

have him go aff since he got a dot tracker, destro is kind of a micro manager(lots of short cooldowns and several buffs and debuffs to maintain) and the soulfire hardcasts can be extremely hard to pull off in some fights. also he should learn how to play demo its extremely helpful on halfus and mal makes the aoe phases smoother and just all around an easier fight for everybody.

also somebody else was freaking out about hit, its not really that important i run at 15.62% and i miss an immo as destro and a conflag sometimes but not a huge loss still pulling good numbers to keep up with everyone else and down bosses.

---------- Post added 2011-04-15 at 05:14 AM ----------

a little bit off-topic but this thread was pretty hard for me to read...

I know that lock is destro as the OP mentioned and the first time this DPS was mentioned (about 20K) I was like " I don't get it..he's doing over 20K, where's the problem?"

then I kept reading and everyone mentioned he's not hitcapped, bad enchants and reforgin,doesn't keep his DoTs on target etc..which I agree is wrong .

however , my DEMO lock is ilvl 353 . a thread from hit cap , using all the right enchants,gems,reforge..I keep my DoTS (CoE,BoD,immo and Corr) close to 100% uptime -

and still doing less than 14K on argalol !!!

so either I'm doing terribly wrong (in that case I could use some advices to get better) or Destro is so much better DPS than demo on single target...

this is my armory : http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...sephoni/simple

and my rotation goes like : (Succy out) CoE,BoD,immo,HoG,Corr,spam SB,refresh HoG on CD and 3Xinicin when MC procs. also, dropping Corr at decimation and replacing SB spams with SF - which I have soulburned)

also, using meta,demonsoul and infernal on CD .

what am I doing wrong ?

i personally love demo as well and use to run it on all fights until i played aff on al'akir and destro on heroic atramedes.

but without further delay, the rotation i use is CoE(meta right afterwards) immolate, HoG, immolation, corruption, shadowflame, and at any point before this if i get all 4 of my SP proccs at once i use BoD(400% sp dot and 60k+ crits are just win), and then soulburn soulfire for the meta dmg boost and demonsoul shadow bolt spam ur probably losing dps over not maintaining 100% uptime on BoD its pretty big dps boost if u get better proccs to renew it if u refreshed it before without any up.

and somebody else said something about not maintaining corruption after 25% or did i misunderstand? and where did u get this info from?