1. #23101
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodhunter View Post
    The dragon on the chestplate is a logo guilds could have for their capes in GW1.

    Maybe this one has a tabardish over his chestplate.
    Wasen't there going to be some kind of guild armor sets or something?
    If so this could be the heavy guild set.
    I'm probably wrong but i think i read about it somewhere but don't know where. :/

  2. #23102
    Quote Originally Posted by Vexies View Post
    Really? didnt you say earlier that it would make GW2 a worse game if it where part of the game? Im speaking in generalities here and you are obviously not alone in your dislike for raiding. I suppose I pushed my point to extremes there for impact but it is meant to address that fear you expressed earlier.



    Im not advocating any sort of exclusivity. On the contrary I dont believe that by simply adding raiding content it will be any more or less exclusive than its going to already be. I very much like the direction of the game and the way people interact. I feel they did a great job with it and agree the over all design encourages people to work together. The ENTIRE point of what ive posted that you seem to have missed is that I dont feel that raiding in and of itself has to change that or would in anyway take away from this aspect of the game. They have done such a great job with these aspects of the game it would of just been interesting and potentially refreshing to see them tackle that as well is all. In addition for me it would of satisfied my desire for that content with the potential to be better than any who have done it before so I cant be blamed for the desire to see them do it. Until that time if it ever comes I will satisfy my desire for raid content in other games.
    It depends on what you want from raiding. If you want the type of raiding that leads to a gear treadmill, that will never happen. If you're looking for large-scale, difficult content, I'd say wait and see. At least currently the closest we will get to that will be level 80 elite DEs. Until we know how difficult those are, we can't say whether that fits your definition of raiding...though I guess it won't, since you won't be able to exclude players...by design

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  3. #23103
    Dreadlord Vexies's Avatar
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    Vexies, quick question, are you lumping "Gear Progression" with "Raiding"? Or do you mean "Raiding" as in 20+ player dungeons, and that is all?
    I merely mean a instanced large scale dungeon where you and 10 or more of your buddies get to go kill bosses and solve encounters. Yes, gear treadmills have been historically ingrained in this style of content but obviously it doesn't have to be. I guess I just would of loved to see their take on that GW2 style is all. I dont see why that makes the game worse. Some do it seems.

    The large scale DE's will satisfy some of that craving for me and I very much look forward to those.

    At least currently the closest we will get to that will be level 80 elite DEs. Until we know how difficult those are, we can't say whether that fits your definition of raiding...though I guess it won't, since you won't be able to exclude players...by design
    I look forward to those very much but I seem to have some how given the impression that I am for or champion exclusivity. I do not. I however also do not believe that it can be totally eliminated and believe you will see it in GW2. I would be completely happy with large scale dungeon style raids. All the other baggage is a by product of different styles of games. I feel they have a place as well. I do like gearing up and have a taste for that style of game as well but obviously that wouldnt work in GW2 as the design of the game is fundamentally different. However, I dont believe that excludes the possibility of raid style content (large instanced dungeons, minus the tread mill) working in GW2 either.
    Last edited by Vexies; 2012-06-19 at 07:26 PM.

  4. #23104
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    It depends on what you want from raiding. If you want the type of raiding that leads to a gear treadmill, that will never happen. If you're looking for large-scale, difficult content, I'd say wait and see. At least currently the closest we will get to that will be level 80 elite DEs. Until we know how difficult those are, we can't say whether that fits your definition of raiding...though I guess it won't, since you won't be able to exclude players...by design
    Have to agree, if people are looking for large-scale difficult content, we already have a medium for that: EDEs. The more people enjoy and demand them, the more of them we'll see in the game. I don't know why people think difficult PvE can only be given through instanced content.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  5. #23105
    what I would definitely consider if I were Anet would be to implement such kind of corruption-DE we played in the finale of the 2nd BWE. This was tons of fun + it could be designed to be difficult content in lv.80 zones.


  6. #23106
    Deleted
    Honestly , how difficult can an open world with no participant limit can be ?
    Fun ? yeah sure , the first handful of times you do it as with anything else.
    I just hope there'll be enough (E)DE with enough variety (RIFT's ...zone wide rifts were most lacking on this regard.) to keep me entertained for a decent amount of time.

    [edit] oooh, i like the post above. i really REALLY like it. Hopefully it's not a bwe exclusive event ( like gwen burning down old ascalon in gw1)!

  7. #23107
    There probably will be lots of world events, seeing how they did world event in GW1...

    I just wanna fight one of the Elder dragons, wanna see how big they are

  8. #23108
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ayashi View Post
    Honestly , how difficult can an open world with no participant limit can be ?
    You'd be shocked. Consider that all content is designed to scale.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  9. #23109
    Quote Originally Posted by ayashi View Post
    Honestly , how difficult can an open world with no participant limit can be ?
    Open world != faceroll. When you take into account scaling, and realize that (even ignoring such debuffs WoW had to prevent zerging of world bosses) zerging isn't always possible.... Each death (or even downed state) means you'll be weaker next downed state, eventually (after as few as ~3 deaths, maybe even downings) instantly dying rather than even having a downed state...Then realize that Elite DEs aren't intended to be a guaranteed win, and while the "average" win rate of DEs is meant to be 40-60%, I suspect some EDEs will be closer to 10%...

    When victory isn't the means to the end, but participation is the goal and provides rewards regardless of success or failure to varying degrees, it opens up the degree of difficulty available to developers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  10. #23110
    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    Open world != faceroll. When you take into account scaling, and realize that (even ignoring such debuffs WoW had to prevent zerging of world bosses) zerging isn't always possible.... Each death (or even downed state) means you'll be weaker next downed state, eventually (after as few as ~3 deaths, maybe even downings) instantly dying rather than even having a downed state...Then realize that Elite DEs aren't intended to be a guaranteed win, and while the "average" win rate of DEs is meant to be 40-60%, I suspect some EDEs will be closer to 10%...

    When victory isn't the means to the end, but participation is the goal and provides rewards regardless of success or failure to varying degrees, it opens up the degree of difficulty available to developers.
    agree, nicely said. Great post.

  11. #23111
    Immortal Luko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post

    When victory isn't the means to the end, but participation is the goal and provides rewards regardless of success or failure to varying degrees, it opens up the degree of difficulty available to developers.
    I'm just praying that the title itself attracts people who at least comprehend this concept. I had similar hopes for the Rift events in Rift, but eventually it just got to the point where people were figuring out exactly how much effort they had to do for good rewards, doing that, then afking. It was so bad after a while that so many people would AFK out and the event became unkillable by the 4 or 5 people left defending.

    I have a little more hope for the potential community of GW2, but I'm not going to go as far as to be naive either. We'll see.
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  12. #23112
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    To be fair Ryngo, right now... We don't actually have to do very much at all to get gold participation in a DE.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  13. #23113
    The event is probably a taste of The Shatterer, though the crystal stuff will probably have to wait until Kralkatorrik because the focus of an expansion.

  14. #23114
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrowstorm View Post
    The event is probably a taste of The Shatterer, though the crystal stuff will probably have to wait until Kralkatorrik because the focus of an expansion.
    I hope Kralkatorrik is the first expansion.

  15. #23115
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    To be fair Ryngo, right now... We don't actually have to do very much at all to get gold participation in a DE.
    Yet DE's do demand attention, especially if there is something afterwards.

    ---------- Post added 2012-06-19 at 11:35 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Larynx View Post
    I hope Kralkatorrik is the first expansion.
    He probably is, seeing as Destiny's Edge almost killed him.

  16. #23116
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    To be fair Ryngo, right now... We don't actually have to do very much at all to get gold participation in a DE.
    This is true. There have been times I'd be fighting as hard as I could, get overwhelmed, die, and just go do something else. Five minutes later I'd get a gold participation medal on my screen from the event ending.
    Mountains rise in the distance stalwart as the stars, fading forever.
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  17. #23117
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrowstorm View Post
    Yet DE's do demand attention, especially if there is something afterwards.
    Oh, that's true enough. But I remember quite a few DEs where all I did was throw out some random AoE from my Shortbow, and afterwards I got a gold. Plenty of times this is good - it means I can leave the escort DE to go help defend a camp from invading centaur, and get gold participation from both.

    But a lot of the time I'd even get random participation rewards from an event I didn't even remember.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    This is true. There have been times I'd be fighting as hard as I could, get overwhelmed, die, and just go do something else. Five minutes later I'd get a gold participation medal on my screen from the event ending.
    Hate to say it, but I'm actually kind of sick of this attitude where failure doesn't mean less reward. You should feel encouraged to succeed in your endeavors. I've hated this notion ever since I first realized that, lose or win, you get tons of honor from BGs.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  18. #23118
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Oh, that's true enough. But I remember quite a few DEs where all I did was throw out some random AoE from my Shortbow, and afterwards I got a gold. Plenty of times this is good - it means I can leave the escort DE to go help defend a camp from invading centaur, and get gold participation from both.

    But a lot of the time I'd even get random participation rewards from an event I didn't even remember.


    Hate to say it, but I'm actually kind of sick of this attitude where failure doesn't mean less reward. You should feel encouraged to succeed in your endeavors. I've hated this notion ever since I first realized that, lose or win, you get tons of honor from BGs.
    When you get gold, did you must have done something for the event to succeed, no matter if you choose to leave early or what.

  19. #23119
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Oh, that's true enough. But I remember quite a few DEs where all I did was throw out some random AoE from my Shortbow, and afterwards I got a gold. Plenty of times this is good - it means I can leave the escort DE to go help defend a camp from invading centaur, and get gold participation from both.

    But a lot of the time I'd even get random participation rewards from an event I didn't even remember.


    Hate to say it, but I'm actually kind of sick of this attitude where failure doesn't mean less reward. You should feel encouraged to succeed in your endeavors. I've hated this notion ever since I first realized that, lose or win, you get tons of honor from BGs.
    Fairly sure the bronze/silver/gold for failures are lesser rewards than for success.
    And I would like to point out that there were some events where I worked my ass off and got bronze/silver, so there's still some work to be done on the rewards system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  20. #23120
    Immortal Luko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post

    Hate to say it, but I'm actually kind of sick of this attitude where failure doesn't mean less reward. You should feel encouraged to succeed in your endeavors. I've hated this notion ever since I first realized that, lose or win, you get tons of honor from BGs.
    As bad as that probably is for some people to read / hear, it's going to sound even worse when I say that I agree with you. I mean, legitimately I got butthurt that no one else was helping so I left, technically abandoning the event. I shouldn't have been awarded ANYTHING for that, let alone full XP and karma.
    Mountains rise in the distance stalwart as the stars, fading forever.
    Roads ever weaving, soul ever seeking the hunter's mark.

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